I changed my playstyle today from the Loose/Aggressive passive to Tight Aggressive and have seen quite an increase in my ability to maintain a positive stack.
It's certainly not the rollercoaster I am used to
. My VP$IP was only 14.29 in my most recent games, so that's an improvement for sure. Just not the same folding all those hands
It took a bit of discipline, but it only took me one hand to deviate from it to get my teeth kicked a little bit.Thanks for all your input guys, has definitely helped out between this post and piersmajestk's earlier post. I think I'll remain tight aggressive for sometime until I really find out what the leaks are in my mental game, although I do have a good idea, then I may loosen up slightly again, although no where near my original level. Piers 'how to win at ONLINE no limit' is a little tight for my tastes, but it is a great ruleset to follow to help stop up your leaks until you can find out what they are.
I still don't think I can go back to the .5/1 games, I just prefer the 2/4 for now. It may break me in the end, but it's a risk I am willing to take at this point. I'd rather polish my game at 2/4 where I find more enjoyment (that is what it's partly about anyway
. If I have to buy in a bigger stack at a later date, I will do that.I mainly wanted to stop up the leak before I reached the 40k hands mark. I have arou nd 10k hands now, and was realizing that, in the long run, my style of play would probably not be profitable - most likely would have been break even, although I did maintain a good BB/100 being so loose. Hopefully the cards will continue to fall!
P.S. - did anyone besides me get the Marie Leveau reference? Kudos to you sir
--Saint
Statistics: Posted by Saint — Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:24 pm
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You have to tighten way down if you expect to keep winning. Marie Leveau with a fresh supply of live chickens couldn't win in the long run voluntarily entering 34% of the pots. As I have stated elsewhere and perhaps I am wrong but I don't think it is possible in the long run to show any appreciable winnings if you have a VIP% much greater than 20%. If there is anyone on this forum with over 40K hands with a VIP% greater than 20% and winning more than 1 BB/100 hands I may have to get your autograph. Perhaps this level is sustainable at the lowest of limits as the play is generally extremely bad but even at 12 limit I don't think it can be done but if there are people out there doing it then more power to you.
Statistics: Posted by piersmajestyk — Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:20 pm
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I'd have a look at Piers' "How to beat online limit hold 'em" post. His starting hand selection is very tight, and focuses on the most profitable hands. It's best to use this as a starting point, and add more marginally profitable hands as you become more experienced.
You may also want to pick up Small Stakes Hold 'Em by Ed Miller, which has some good starting hand guides as well as post flop play discussion. You can find it on BTP's book page ().
Statistics: Posted by Nortonesque — Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:24 pm
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I definately say you are much too loose. Especially at the low limits where many times you will need to show down a premium holding (Set or higher) to win because all the calling stations will be hanging around to the river to see if they can hit their 3 outer.
I play
AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AKs, AK, AQs, AQ from early to mid position and always raise. I only add any pair, suited connectors down to 9T with 3 limpers (which is almost every hand at the lower limit), and KQ, QJ, JT in the cut off or button raising if I'm first in.
I am probably too tight but if you only play these hands you can't get into too much trouble and it's easy to be very aggressive post flop since you are only playing premium hands.
As far as playing at the .50 / 1.00 tables I would recommend staying until you have at least 600 to move up to the 1/2 limit and don't bother with the 6 handed games because you can loose alot of money fast.
Again this is just my 2 cents but it has worked well for me.
My PT stats for limt are approximately
VP$IP ~ 11%
Pre Flop Raise ~ 8%
Went to show down ~ 30 %
Won at show down ~ 55 %
At .50 / 1.00 I am winning over 6 BB/100 hands
At 1/2 I am winning ~ 3.5 BB/100 hands
At 2/4 I am winning ~.3.0 BB/100 hands
Note that there are many winning players that play many more hands than this but I believe they have alot of experience and are skilled folders allowing them to get away from marginal situations (very tough for most people).
Good Luck
BK
Statistics: Posted by BKAZ — Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:08 pm
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Also, it seems that you are using UTG (under the gun or first to act preflop) when you should be saying CO (cut off or position to act right before the button). You choices for premium hands and raises could get you in trouble. I wouldn't raise with small pocket pairs as I want to see a cheap flop and hope for a set. A9s is a fold to me unless there are either no one in the pot in Lp or there are a lot. This way, I either have the best ace or I have odds to draw for the flush.. Hands such as AJ, KQ, KJ are often folds if there is a raise in front of you or a limp if not (always depends on the situation).
As for the other group of hands, none of those hands are definite plays and I only play the high suited connectors (or one gappers like J9s) when there are a lot of people in the pot and in LP. I usually fold them in ep and mp.
Weak acess are some of the biggest leaks because most people will play aces so you are often out kicked. If you call and then there is a raise behind you, the likelyhood that you are outkicked is increased.
Suited connectors and drawing hands are best for cheap, multiway pots so they are best played in lp after many limpers.
Hope this helps and let me know if you have any questions/disagreements with what I said.
Statistics: Posted by briachek — Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:04 pm
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My second set of hands are only -called Pre-Flop, and folded to any bet. Should I not even call with them? Or shorten the list of hands that warrant a BB call pre-flop?
My VP$IP is 34.12 and my BB/100 is 2.99. I realize those aren't the best stats, so that's why I'm trying to make adjustments and plug the leaks. So, high VP$IP tells me to STOP CALLING DAMN IT? Keep in mind that VP$IP is before I tried to limit my playable hands.
Also, I'm pretty disciplined about folding when I realize I am beat, but I need to get out of the habit of putting 2 bucks in the pot to see the flop if I shouldn't be. I took those hands from some online reading and research from the EV of hands I have played in PT.
Statistics: Posted by Saint — Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:42 pm
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What is your VP$IP? It should be no higher than low 20's at worst (mine is about 16%).
Also, with very little money in your bankroll, you may want to work at a lower limit than 2/4 and 1/2 until you get at least 600 to get to 1/2. This is so you get adjusted to the game without going broke because good players take bad swings and you don't want to be wiped out.
Statistics: Posted by briachek — Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:33 pm
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66-AA
AKs-A9s
KQs-KJs
AKo-AJo
KQo
UTG or late position are always raises, EP or MP are at least calls (depending on raises and reraises seen prior). Probably warrant a bet on turn unless flop is a complete miss with possible flushes or straights.
A8s-A6s
KTs-K8s
QJs-Q9s
JTs-J9s
Suited Connectors
KJo-K8o
ATo-A6o
QJo
UTG or LP are always calls/lead out bet, EP or MP would be a fold depending on bets at the table. If flop misses, they are a check/fold.
This is just a general guidline to help me tighten up my play. Would welcome any input. I'm obviously much too loose in my play to this point and, in the long run, that is going to break me. Typically, before I made a hard list on starting hands, I judged each hand by the table. However, I've learned that in limit, you are going to be called to River 90% of the time, so better have started with something good. I need to set some guidlines for myself or my next level of play is going to have a little fishie icon next to it
Statistics: Posted by Saint — Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:28 pm
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I'm a long time home game player, but that doesn't say a ton
Last Friday took my first trip to Casino and won $355 at 2/5. Decided to come back and invest 50 of that in Party Poker. My first week I won $280 - until the weekend when I subsequently lost 100 of that. I won that 100 back, then lost another 100 playing 1/2 and 2/4.During this time, I've been reading books and online sites like a madman in an attempt to improve my game. PokerTracker rated me with it's default rating as a Loose-Aggresive/Passive. Research told me that was not a winning strategy in the long term, so I tried to tighten up a bit and instead turned into a calling station. Wrong way to move!
So, I need some advice on tightening up my game and balancing post-flop aggression (if I coudl ever get a flop I mean
Right now, my strategy would be the following hands are always a pre-flop bet and a play:
66-AA
AKs-A9s
KQs-KJs
AKo-AJo
KQo
With the following hands warranting a call depending on pre-flop aggression from other players:
A8s-A6s
KTs-K8s
QJs-Q9s
JTs-J9s
Suited Connectors
KJo-K8o
ATo-A6o
QJo
Everything else is folded without hesitation
. I think this tightens up my game quite a bit. I also need to become slightly more aggressive post flop from my rating it would seem.
I've been reading a ton abpout hand odds and pot odds, but have not developed a full understanding, nor do I full yunderstand all the stats reported by poker tracker, yet, but I am doing a lot of research.
Thoughts and ideas? I'm averaging about $40 a night winning, excepting Tuesday's loss of 100 bucks. Is it normal to start losing as one develops a better understanding and tries to make adjustments to his/her game? My bankroll is not large by any means, so I don't want to lose it all before I have a chance to build it up.
Guess my question really is, how to become Tight/Aggressive Aggressive? That's what we aspire to?
Thanks in advance!
--Saint
Statistics: Posted by Saint — Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:43 pm
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