I recently started participating in the 2+2 forums as well. I posted my hand there and asked for comments. One commenter there, Deception5 explained: "Bet the flop. No one raised preflop and you have a very strong hand. You were lucky utg bet here, you'd have to just call a late position bet.
As I'm sure you noticed your check/3-bet killed the action and folded most of the field. You want to bet here because you could very easily be betting a draw and you will often be raised and can hopefully 3-bet or cap. When your opponents see you check/3-bet they think you flopped a monster and get out of the way."
He also gave me a link to a post advising how to play strong draws optimally.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showf ... ost2869548
Statistics: Posted by EscapePlan9 — Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:17 pm
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Anything done to increase your winning chances in a large pot should be a good thing. You might lose an extra bet or two by playing this way, but it's better than losing the entire pot.
As you can probably tell... I'm confused as to the right play. Your play makes sense, as does the more aggressive elimination play.
If you own Small Stakes Hold'Em.. check out pg. 271 hand #7. The hand in that example was even worse, yet they advocate 3-betting it (SB bets, BB calls, EP raises, MP folds, you re-raise). The hand was A4s and on the flop it picked up a gutshot, overcard, and backdoor flush draw. Of course the hand isn't in the lead at the moment, but this elimination raising increases your chances of winning by making someone with a bigger ace fold (buying you two more outs), by making someone with a different backdoor flush draw fold (clearing up an out for your gutshot), and by making people fold all sorts of other hands. I know by check-raising the flop and betting out the turn I've made people with even TPTK fold!
"Many players encourage their opponents to remain in the hand no matter the circumstances while drawing... (they do not want to "lose any customers" when they make their hand). They are correct that if they make the nut flush they often prefer many opponents. But they forget that they will often miss their flush and improve to one or two pair. With such a hand you will win with fewer opponents." (SSHE, 159)
I'll have to think about this some more...
Statistics: Posted by EscapePlan9 — Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:58 pm
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And yeah, playing heads-up with a flush draw against someone who most likely has me outkicked is a bad idea. (He ended up having KT, by the way.) If the river were an Ace of clubs then we would have just split the pot anyway (AAKKQ).
Statistics: Posted by EscapePlan9 — Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:44 am
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Ultimate Bet 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed)
Preflop: Hero is SB with
![[Kh]](http://livepokerforum.com/images/smilies/Kh.gif "The King of Hearts")
, ![[9h]](http://livepokerforum.com/images/smilies/9h.gif "The Nine of Hearts")
. UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.
Flop: (6 SB)
![[Kc]](http://livepokerforum.com/images/smilies/Kc.gif "The King of Clubs")
, ![[8h]](http://livepokerforum.com/images/smilies/8h.gif "The Eight of Hearts")
, ![[Qh]](http://livepokerforum.com/images/smilies/Qh.gif "The Queen of Hearts")
(6 players)Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets, MP2 calls, CO raises, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, BB folds, UTG folds, MP2 folds, CO calls.
Turn: (7 BB)
![[As]](http://livepokerforum.com/images/smilies/As.gif "The Ace of Spades")
(2 players)Hero bets, CO calls.
River: (9 BB)
![[Ah]](http://livepokerforum.com/images/smilies/Ah.gif "The Ace of Hearts")
(2 players)Hero bets, CO calls.
Final Pot: 11 BB
This was an extremely loose table for 1/2 on UB and I made a nice profit off it.
PF: K9s is a great hand in this situation.
Flop: I figured someone would have caught some piece of this flop and bet it, so I went for a check-raise. I had top-pair with the 2nd best flush draw and a backdoor straight draw and wanted as many bets as possible on the flop. If I knew it would be bet and raised before me, then I would have just lead out with a bet. I just know that most of the time when I lead out with a bet from an EP I usually get no re-raises.
I think making it 3-bets was a borderline decision... but I'm still uncertain about my play. I was hoping to have at least the initial bettor and raiser stick around for the ride. Instead I only got the raiser. Perhaps if I just called the raise there would have been more calls before me. Then again, there was a straight possibility, my hand wasn't that strong yet, and the pot was a decent size. 3-betting it would force someone calling with a gutshot like AJ or J9 to make an unprofitable call. And the most important thing to do in large pots is to increase your winning chances, right?
Turn: Pure semi-bluff. I really didn't think my King alone was good at this point. He didn't raise pre-flop, so I didn't put him on AK or AQ. I wasn't too worried if he called or raised - I still had plenty of outs and the odds to call a raise.
River: Straight out value bet.
The flop is the only time I was unsure of my play. Lead out with a bet... check-raise if the raise comes from my left... check-call if the raise comes from my right...
What would you have done on the flop and why?
The more I think about it, the more I think my re-raise was okay. If I got someone with A8 to fold - great! I seriously doubt my 3-bet would make anyone holding JT fold with an open-ended straight draw. (Although I sometimes fold open-ended straight draws to this kind of action if there is two suited cards on board, I doubt these looser players will.)
Statistics: Posted by EscapePlan9 — Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:14 pm
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