Well, since the ole limit section is always in need of some decent posts, i figure before i go get drunk and make an ass of myself at karaoke, ill post one.

Bluffin... I do it a fair amount more than i used to, and lets face it, knowing when to do it and knowing when someone else is doing it pretty much separate the big winners from the marginal winners / breakeven players. I am trying to get a good feel for it, but mostly i do it by intuition- so i guess i will post a few hands, some where it worked and others where it didnt. Anyone that wants to toss in thier own hand histories / rationales is obviously envouraged...

This one was one where the bluff worked. THis is a bluff that i used to NEVER make because it seems to me to be an obvious bluff on the end here- but ive seen others do it, and it seems to work sometimes- although there is a very good chance that i was bluffing with the best hand here. THis guy overdefended his BB.

Dealt to AKsoGay
lennys222 calls [$10].
hawk29 folds.
jamiebet folds.
monie1 folds.
thenightprowler folds.
AKsoGay raises [$10].
jamiebet: get ur change out of my room
lennys222 calls [$10].
** Dealing Flop **
AKsoGay bets [$10].
lennys222 calls [$10].
** Dealing Turn **
AKsoGay bets [$20].
lennys222 raises [$40].
AKsoGay calls [$20].
** Dealing River **
AKsoGay bets [$20].
lennys222 folds.
AKsoGay does not show cards.
AKsoGay wins $163

So i called the turn raise and stop-n-go'd the river and he mucked. I assume he was probably on a heart draw, but hell, who knows? Would he have called with any pair? Hmm.

This one didnt work out so well. I had no read on the guy since he'd just come into the game. I hadnt played a hand in some time and was getting pretty restless, and was also gettin a tighter image than i like, so i decided to make a little move. It proved to be ill advised.

Dealt to AKsoGay [ 8d 7d ]
Mar64 folds.
Tzadi raises [$20].
AKsoGay raises [$30].
JKE04 folds.
hawk29 folds.
Tzadi calls [$10].
** Dealing Flop **
Tzadi bets [$10].
AKsoGay raises [$20].
Tzadi calls [$10].
** Dealing Turn ** (Picked up the flush draw- thats probably the only reason i fired this one- although, who knows, maybe i wouldve anyway?)
Tzadi checks.
AKsoGay bets [$20].
Tzadi calls [$20].
** Dealing River **
Tzadi checks.
AKsoGay checks.
Tzadi shows [ Kd, Kc ] two pairs, kings and fours.
AKsoGay doesn't show ] a pair of fours.
Tzadi wins $153 from the main pot with two pairs, kings and fours.

What a goddam waste of 70 or so dollars huh? I am thinking i played this terrible because probably either the A hit him, or else if not he had a PP that was decent enough that he probably wouldnt lay down heads up-- he fired the flop and didnt go for a CR though, and his weak lead made me very very suspicious. Sure enough he was weak- to an extent, i guess- if you can call KK a weak hand. fuck! I was sorta hoping he had KQ or something.

This one worked, and i think is probably a much better one, since i called the raise from the BB with junk, and junk flopped, albeit junk that didnt really hit me, it was still probably a pretty credible bluf...

Dealt to AKsoGay
pvelektra folds.
GreenGrok calls [$10].
genonc folds.
Trevalon folds.
AKsoGay checks.
** Dealing Flop **
AKsoGay checks.
GreenGrok bets [$10].
AKsoGay raises [$20].
GreenGrok calls [$10].
** Dealing Turn ** (ARGH i hate that card)
AKsoGay bets [$20]. (Gotta fire it anyway right?)
>You have options at Table 10793 (6 max) Table!.
GreenGrok folds.
AKsoGay does not show cards.
AKsoGay wins $83

NIHAN!

This one did NOT work at all, this was a B&M hand. I was in the BB with and it gets limped, 3 person pot to me. Flop is . I lead and get one caller. Turn is [10c] I bet he calls. River blanks off, i bet he calls and shows me .

This one also did not work. I am thinking MAYBE i shouldve fired the last barrel here, but the guy was a station first off, and secondly, the board was just too bad, IMHO... Firing the last barrel would definitely have taken it down off a decent player, but this guy was such a mizor, i think he MOST likely wouldve called, although to do so would be idiotic in my opinion. Anyways ill never know cuz i lost my testicles on the end.

Dealt to AKsoGay
genonc folds.
Trevalon folds.
AKsoGay raises [$20].
pvelektra folds.
>You have options at Table 10793 (6 max) Table!.
ownlilworld folds.
Tahoe32 calls [$10].
** Dealing Flop **
pvelektra: nh
Tahoe32 bets [$10].
AKsoGay raises [$20].
Tahoe32 calls [$10].
** Dealing Turn **
Tahoe32 checks.
>You have options at Table 10793 (6 max) Table!.
AKsoGay bets [$20].
Tahoe32 calls [$20].
** Dealing River **
Tahoe32 checks.
AKsoGay checks.
Tahoe32 shows ] a pair of queens.
AKsoGay doesn't show ] a pair of queens.
>You have options at Table 10793 (6 max) Table!.
Tahoe32 wins $123 from the main pot with a pair of queens with ace kicker.

This one on the other hand worked out pretty nicely--

Dealt to AKsoGay
fishin4cash folds.
Burningfish folds.
foyled99 raises [$20].
FrankDaTanc folds.
AKsoGay calls [$10].
** Dealing Flop **
AKsoGay checks.
foyled99 bets [$10].
AKsoGay raises [$20].
foyled99 calls [$10].
** Dealing Turn **
>You have options at Table 10746 (6 max) Table!.
AKsoGay bets [$20].
foyled99 calls [$20].
** Dealing River **
AKsoGay bets [$20].
foyled99 folds.
AKsoGay does not show cards.
AKsoGay wins $143

I may have had the best hand here too, i dunno- or he mightve had the Ahi club draw. Thats sorta where i had him since he raised PF, but of course he couldve had a wired pair with a backup club too...hm.

This one, well. Lets just say this didnt work out so well. I read the guy as tight too, so this was probably a stupid one.

Dealt to AKsoGay
NEWgreanu folds.
>You have options at Table 11766 (6 max) Table!.
tuftstennis has been reconnected and has 20 seconds to act.
tuftstennis folds.
shark0984 folds.
Deceptitraan raises [$20].
NMILLS21 folds.
AKsoGay calls [$10].
** Dealing Flop **
AKsoGay checks.
Deceptitraan bets [$10].
AKsoGay raises [$20].
Deceptitraan calls [$10].
** Dealing Turn **
AKsoGay bets [$20].
Deceptitraan calls [$20].
** Dealing River **
AKsoGay bets [$20].
Deceptitraan calls [$20].
AKsoGay shows a pair of kings.
Deceptitraan shows two pairs, kings and nines.
Deceptitraan wins $163 from the main pot with two pairs, kings and nines.

ARGH! Just lookin at that one pisses me off. LIke i said i read the guy as tight, and hed have never made a fishy calldown, say with 88 or something, or AQ. But DAmn him he had a fucking 9. Argh!

Anyays, i guess im noticing that the blind defense bluffs on ragged boards work pretty well- beyond that, not sure. Do it mostly by feel. THeres alot more hands but good luck findin em in a 60k hand dbase right?

AWESOME topic! As you know, I am a steadfast believer in the theory that there is no wrong time to bluff. That's obviously a bloody awful theory, but I figure at this time in my life, I gotta start believing in something.

Hand 1 : Yeah, I know it looks corny and obvious, but getting 7:1 I think you gotta bluff this if you think there's a reasonable chance that he's overdefending or pushing a draw himself.

Hand 2 : I'll be honest, I also get the occasional kick outta 3-betting with suited connectors preflop. Usually, I at least TELL people I have some kinda read though! No shame in lying, mizor-boy. I'm cool with your flop raise since the lead out bet does indicate weakness, and I've really been surprised lately how often people lead out on ace-high flops and fold to my continuation raise. Of course, it doesn't always work. I'd like to say you should probably take the free card on the turn because it doesn't look like he's folding...in practice, I'd fire another bet no doubt, but at least I'd realize it's probably a bad idea. On the river, I don't think there's much chance at all he'll fold so the check is good.

Hand 3 : Definitely good play. Textbook, in fact! I'm not sure which textbook in particular, but clearly we've both read it. Or at least looked at the pictures

Hand 4 : I don't know, I think the river check is good. The only hand I see him folding after all this would be a T9. I really doubt he'd fold AK on the river there.

Hand 5 : God-damn, this is a lotta fuckin hands! Yeah, I think it's worth taking one more shot at the river. He may have the Ax with the Ac, or hell even the Ax with the xc. I think it's definitely worth one more shot on the river.

Hand 6 : Eh, I don't know...this board just doesn't look like a good one to make a move on, in my opinion. If I'm gonna try to steal with nothing out of the BB, I prefer a really rag flop with one face card J-K. I think having the possible draws and the K9x on this flop makes it a not-so-good percentage play to try and take it. Just my opinion, though!

I think the biggest thing to keep in mind about bluffs is that they won't work very often, but they don't need to! If you're getting something like 8:1 or 9:1 on your river bluff, it's very often worth taking a shot. No, not always, but if you're up against an aggressive opponent who could be pushing a draw...or a passive opponent who could be calling with one, it's often worth stabbing with your own busted draw.

I'll close by posting a hand I played yesterday that just goes to show what can happen when two people get stubborn in a battle of the blinds. I had been very...active at this table, and the guy I was against seemed to be getting sick of it, so I decided to put him to the test. It helped that I picked up the flush draw on the turn, but I was gonna raise no matter what. Looking back, this hand seems like a great example of chip-spewing on my end, but hey it's important to have fun at work, right?

***** Hand History for Game 2466392371 *****
$3/$6 Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, August 02, 16:36:48 EDT 2005
Table Table 15689 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Jeanette29 ( $254 )
Seat 10: TangRocks ( $455.50 )
Seat 9: viv12883 ( $249.50 )
Seat 3: Macadamias2 ( $158 )
Seat 7: Rokuban ( $110 )
Seat 5: hopdevil006 ( $21.50 )
Seat 6: Larsson85 ( $137 )
Seat 2: whatthe888 ( $160 )
Seat 8: Deftones6339 ( $34 )
Seat 4: biedermeier ( $164 )
Jeanette29 posts small blind [$1].
whatthe888 posts big blind [$3].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TangRocks [ 4c Kd ]
Macadamias2 folds.
biedermeier folds.
hopdevil006 folds.
Larsson85 folds.
Rokuban folds.
Deftones6339 folds.
viv12883 folds.
TangRocks raises [$6].
Jeanette29 folds.
whatthe888 calls [$3].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jh, 6d, Jd ]
whatthe888 bets [$3].
TangRocks raises [$6].
whatthe888 raises [$6].
TangRocks calls [$3].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5d ]
whatthe888 bets [$6].
TangRocks raises [$12].
whatthe888 folds.
TangRocks does not show cards.
TangRocks wins $47

And here's a more standard, less reckless one from today. Okay, granted the SB limp of 98o is a little ugly, but ah well! I really thought he was just calling me with overs or straight crap because my bet looked like a steal, so I decided to go check-raise on the turn. Didn't work as planned, but when someone pushes that hard I often figure they either have a monster or a draw, so I figured the river bet was worth a shot.

***** Hand History for Game 2471058730 *****
$3/$6 Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, August 03, 12:41:49 EDT 2005
Table Table 15683 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 8: KMAKMA333 ( $249 )
Seat 9: alcalerginas ( $327 )
Seat 10: TangRocks ( $299.50 )
Seat 7: Xaneus10 ( $152 )
Seat 2: JBzone ( $70 )
Seat 6: AaronLZ ( $292 )
Seat 4: URomy ( $10 )
Seat 5: VegasAg ( $115 )
Seat 3: faenX ( $173 )
TangRocks posts small blind [$1].
JBzone posts big blind [$3].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TangRocks [ 9h 8c ]
faenX folds.
URomy folds.
VegasAg folds.
AaronLZ folds.
Xaneus10 folds.
KMAKMA333 calls [$3].
alcalerginas folds.
TangRocks calls [$2].
JBzone checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6d, 6c, 7h ]
TangRocks bets [$3].
JBzone calls [$3].
KMAKMA333 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jd ]
TangRocks checks.
JBzone bets [$6].
TangRocks raises [$12].
JBzone raises [$12].
TangRocks calls [$6].
** Dealing River ** [ As ]
TangRocks bets [$6].
JBzone folds.
TangRocks does not show cards.
TangRocks wins $54.50.

-TW

Nice post guys. I am drifting back toward limit after a 3 week slide at NL where I have pissed away about 10 buy ins and then some at the $100 buy in party tables.

I have always been horrible at bluffing usually picking the perfect scary flop card to get into a pissing contest with the guy who just made his hand, so I try to keep it to a bare minimum.


BK

you guys sure like to make stone cold bluffs more than i do. i find so many semibluffing opportunities that i stick to them mostly even if they are somewhat slim ala gutshot or something along those lines.
occasianally a situation where i need to make a stone cold bluff comes up but i dont go looking for them
\matty

The only real bluff I do is when it's headsup (and SOMETIMES 3-handed if I know they aren't calling stations) and there's four-to-a-flush out there. There's a chance he has nothing of that suit, or a low card of that suit against the PFR, and will often fold here. My other bluffs are all semi-bluffs.

I really don't agree with stone-cold bluffing as often as Mecos and TW suggest. Especially not in low-stakes limit!

face it... knowing when to do it and knowing when someone else is doing it pretty much separate the big winners from the marginal winners / breakeven players

Of course those parts are important, but your examples certainly do not show any favorable situation. You are doing blind aggression. Re-raising the flop with nothing and betting the turn and river with nothing. You have no idea where you stand in the hand, but keep betting and betting anyways. That's not a favorable bluffing situation!

I think most important is betting and raising strong draws and strong hands for maximum value. Semi-bluffs are also important, even as weak as a gutshot draw when 2 or 3-handed.

Escape:

Well, in general, i dont stone-cold bluff that much. Although, it isnt for lack of wanting to. Its just that it takes more balls than i generally have.

for example, a gem like this one is a pretty rare find

Dealt to AKsoGay
G0dfatha folds.
AAS1388 folds.
LionDave folds.
Skendroshen folds.
MARLIN7775 raises [$15].
AKsoGay calls [$10].
>You have options at Table 12421 Table!.
** Dealing Flop **
MARLIN7775 bets [$10].
AKsoGay calls [$10].
** Dealing Turn **
(NOTE: I only CALLED the flop bet because i intended to raise the turn no matter what fell- although i didnt like the ace much, but figured if he didnt have an A, he couldnt call this raise, even with a hand like JJ- and if he did, id suckout anyway )
MARLIN7775 bets [$20].
AKsoGay raises [$40].
MARLIN7775 folds.
AKsoGay does not show cards.
AKsoGay wins $118


But Tightwad is right in cases of a blind steal attempt that ends up in a headsup pissing contest. If youve got a frisky player in the blinds, its tough to get away with stealing, because by raising, the button has defined his hand at least somewhat, as maybe an Ax, or some sort of paint cards, maybe a JT or something like that-- but the BB, in calling, hasnt given away a damn thing about his hand, except that whatever it is, he figures its getting 3:1-- which means he could have literally any two. The only thing is that the button has position, which is obviously a huge advantage. But if the BB isnt afraid to toe it up with the button even if he misses, just because he thinks to button missed to (which he probably did, right?) then the advantage of position becomes greatly lessened. A situation like this is a perfect example of where a pretty thinbluff is perfectly legitimate, if you think you have over 50% fold equity in the hand.

Dealt to AKsoGay
lilchuc2 folds.
ernmeister raises [$15].
AKsoGay calls [$10].
** Dealing Flop **
ernmeister bets [$10].
AKsoGay raises [$20].
ernmeister folds.
AKsoGay does not show cards.
AKsoGay wins $69

I mean its not a monster pot or anything, but when you look at my winrate of *cough* ... 1.75 bb/100, that 1.5BBs i made in this hand actually do count for something.

Now busted draws are a little more iffy than blind defenses, because usually these are river bluffs when the pot is at least decent enough that someone could be getting odds to keep you honest with very little. THESE, i very rarely go for. However, the more i try them the more i like them!

Tighty is a definite fan of the river donkbet into an opponent who showed aggression early...In fact, it is such a tightwad thing to do that im inclined to name it the Tightwad bet, because its such, in my opinion, an obviously mizorly attempt to steal the pot in one last fit of desperation. However, it seems to work a good deal more often than i ever thought it would, like here--

Dealt to AKsoGay
>You have options at Table 12662 (6 max) Table!.
albertolee79 calls [$10].
sinxchange folds.
ziels4 raises [$20].
AKsoGay calls [$15].
Daledad raises [$20].
albertolee79 calls [$20].
ziels4 calls [$10].
AKsoGay calls [$10].
** Dealing Flop **
AKsoGay bets [$10].
Daledad calls [$10].
albertolee79 calls [$10].
ziels4 calls [$10].
** Dealing Turn **
AKsoGay checks.
Daledad checks.
albertolee79 checks.
ziels4 checks.
** Dealing River **
AKsoGay bets [$20].
>You have options at Table 12662 (6 max) Table!.
Daledad folds.
albertolee79 folds.
ziels4 folds.
AKsoGay does not show cards.

(This by the way, is classic TW- Fire the busted draw in first position into a field of three people! Wheee!)

And also, in TWs examples, he actually did have decent draws both times...of course he bricked them both, but hey, whoever said whiffing a draw had to cost you the pot?

However, i will say that bluffing in lower limit games is probably diferent, because (and dont get me wrong, the play can be pretty bad at bigger limits) you probly still get more stations at the lower limits. For example, this play MAY not have worked at a lower limit

Dealt to AKsoGay
vegascarrier folds.
Sevillano720 folds.
garbaegman folds.
jwormser calls [$10].
(I figured him for a REALLY awful hand because he limped from the SB, and he was the type that liked to raise...so i figure ill pump him)
AKsoGay raises [$20].
jwormser calls [$20].
** Dealing Flop **
jwormser bets [$20].
(He leads with god knows what, maybe a 7 and maybe nothing at all, but if his hand was anything that was remotely reasonable enough to call down with on this board, he'd have raised it preflop, most likely, or maybe gone for the CR on the flop..)
AKsoGay raises [$40]. (So i POP his ass)
jwormser folds.
AKsoGay does not show cards.
AKsoGay wins $138

Now he may have had something like J5s or 67s, and maybe at a lower limit hed have called-- but my guess was that he didnt have anything at all, and he was just going after the pot. However, if he did have a slight semblane of a hand, if it was 2/4 and not 20/40, he may have called, i dunno.