When I started to play poker about a year ago I played micro-limit at Expekt (part of Prima). After a few months I switched to NL (also at the micro-limit). The last month I have started to play limit again. I play at the $0.25/$0.5 level and in the beginning I was doing very well. After the first 2000 hands I was about 9BB/100 hands. Then the trouble started. The last 2000 hands has been very frustrating. I am now down to 4BB/100 hands which would be good at higher levels but at this level I would believe that you could do better. Anyhow at this level so many players are beginners and they are playing just about any hand. Typical 3 or 4 players have a vp$ip% of 50 or more. Maybe I have just been unlucky lately but I suspect that there is more to it than that.

Those of you that have read "Small Stakes Hold'em" will recognise what follows. I will make up a hand below to illustrate.

Lets say that you have AA on the button. 2 loose players limps in front of you and you raise. The blinds calls and so does the limpers.

The pot is now 10 small bets. The flop comes K72 with two of the same suit. It is checked to you. You bet and lets say that everyone but one calls. (Just to keep the numbers nice.)

Pot-size is 14 small bets or 7 big bets. Now the turn is another 2 that doesn't complete the flush. Again checked to you and you bet again. You get two callers.

Pot-size is 10 big bets. The river is a J that doesn't complete the flush. Again it is checked to you and you value bet. Now the guy who was drawing to the flush folds but the other guy raises. Oh no! Well the pot is big so you call. Your opponent flips over Q2 and you start doing your best Phil Hellmuth impersonation...

Now I'm sure that I could have handled this hand better! The opponent with Q2 made an error before the flop but after the flop he played correct and my play helped him do that. The pre-flop raise built the pot-size up so that my bet on the flop becomes useless. With 5 outs it's ok to call that bet. The weak draws should fold to the turn bet but the flush draw is correct in calling so that bet is also not very good. The river bet and call is ok though I think. Sure the flop and turn bets are probably +EV but what troubles me is that my opponents calls also are.

I have a couple of questions. Is the pre-flop raise correct? I would think so but it kind of hand-cuffs me on the flop. Should one give a free card on the flop and start to protect the hand on turn if a harmless card comes? (Against these opponents it is sometimes hard to recognise harmless cards though ) Any help is appreciated!

/CipherJr

the preflop raise is correct because if you don't, more hands might call but while raising, you might get some of these people with garbage out. I love the 2 on the turn as you think that people can't have a 2. I likely 3 bet that river because as many times people have Q2 and such, more times people have KJ and think they just caught the winner. You can't help that they made the "correct" play after the flop because if they are playing Q2 for 2 bets, they aren't thinking about the odds so not raising to bet/raise the flop won't make him do anything different.

I agree that the pre-flop raise could make one or both of the blinds to fold. The limpers I don't know. They have decided to see the flop and will almost always do so. But if even just one of the blinds fold that's great. If they don't the raise is for value so I will not stop raising.

I also agree that the 2 on the turn is a very good card and that raising as much as possible on the river is good. When I wrote the post I was upset and "knew" (obviously since I made the hand up ) that he had a 2 in his hand. The last week I have almost come to expect to lose when I have a good starting hand. I will not play for a few days so this feeling will go away.

Checking on the flop I still think is ok though. If a blank comes you can bet out if they check to you and now those drawing to 4 or 5 outs are making big mistakes calling. An even better scenario is if someone now decides to bet in front of you, giving you a chance to raise. Now even the flush draw should fold.

To me it seems like when you have a good but beatable hand and you are against many opponents then the goal of your actions on the flop and turn should be to knock opponents out of the pot. Or do you think that one is giving up to much value by trying to be tricky?

Thanks for your replies!

Well I think that the "limping preflop" part of my thinking is out of my system now. Doing things for strategic reasons would be a waste of time at the micro-limits. Neither me nor my opponents are good enough to notice.

Checking the flop is perhaps something that one can start using at higher limits where I imagine players are less likely to chase with hopeless hands. Where I play I am likely to lose to much by not collecting those hopeless calls on the flop. Or do you think that checking the flop is a bad thing even when your opponents get better?

Checking the flop is for drawing hands or strong made hands looking for action later. Vulnerable made hands should pretty much always bet. There are lots of hands that will fold here, but stick around (correctly) if the right free card comes, so you need to bet and knock them out.

In SSHE the example given is much different -- the pot is over 20 small bets and someone has bet into you. It's a call or raise decision, rather than a check or bet decision. In SSHE you forgo a small pot equity advantage to gain a larger one on the turn. Here your pot equity is already big, and there's no sense in losing it when you don't have to.

Also, for the $.25/.50 and $.50/1 limits, I think 4-6BB/100 is probably what a good player would expect to make.

Nortonesque,

Yeah calling or raising versus checking or betting does make a difference doesn't it. Didn't really think about this. Thanks for pointing this out. When you do decide to just call instead of raising nobody is getting a free card. But if you are checking you are giving free a card. So in both cases you are giving up some value but in the checking or betting case you are also giving free cards making it a bad decision. Am I starting to understand this?