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Evaluate my thinking and play on this hand - Live Poker Forums

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Evaluate my thinking and play on this hand

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Evaluate my thinking and play on this hand

Postby BKAZ » Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:52 pm

1/2 full ring game, I am in the cutoff position and have not been here long enough to get a good read on any specific players except it is typical low limit table where 5 or 6 see every flop and almost every hand goes to the show down.

1 early position player limps, Hero in cut off raises with Ah Jh, button cold calls, both blinds and limper call. Pot is 10 small bets. Flop comes 5s 9h Jd. Checked to hero, who bets. Button calls, blinds both fold and limper calls. Pot is 13 small bets. Turn comes 3d. limper checks hero bets button calls, limper folds. River brings Kd. Hero bets, button calls pot is ~ 10 big bets.

My thinking:

Pre flop: 1 early position limper, I have position and I don’t want the button to call with a medium hand so I raise. If I get reraised I will call and look for a flush draw or 2 pair.

Flop: Top Pair not bad but too many people in the pot, I will raise if the blinds or limper bet. I would like to check raise to pressure people out but I don’t know if the button will take a free card if I offer it. I bet and loose the blinds.

I think my opponents are on straight draw (pot odds justify calling) maybe slow playing set of 9’s, if this is the case I will get popped on the turn.

Turn: No help for me but no help for the straight draw either, I better hit it again to protect my hand. Hmmmm limper folded but the button called.

River: Better bet,


Button Had 5 9 for 2 pair on the flop so the pot goes to him.

I know over the long haul players like this (cold calling a raise with trash hand) are the ones we make money from but is there anything different I could have done.

Any feedback on my thinking or ways to better protect a vulnerable hand like Top Pair top kicker.


BK
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Postby Hofstra » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:45 pm

Just some thoughts:
Raising pf to buy the button and get the blinds out seems fine if you think this has a chance of succeeding. It does take away the possibility of a checkraise on the flop though. If you know that many people are going to call your raise anyway then I would not raise, to keep the pot small and have some more control on the flop.

Your flop and turn bets were fine in my opinion - make them pay. On the flop you would like to raise, but if it is checked to you you have to bet. Checking would be a big mistake, since even if the button bets you cannot drive anyone out by raising, and you gained no information whatsoever.
When I read the hand it seemed to me that none of your opponents had a made hand, because they would have raised you at some point. This makes KJ, JQ less likely for them to hold.

I would not bet this river, unless you strongly believe that your opponent has something like QJ and is going to call you. Just check/call. You have to fold to a raise. If he was on the nut straight draw, then he made it and will raise you. Similarly with overcards (he could have AK or KQ). If he has nothing you might induce a bluff because the board looks scary and he will put you on tptk or an overpair.

It is not only horrible of him to call with 59, but slowplaying bottom 2 like that is even worse.
I guess he decided to slowplay on the flop but got scared on the turn.
From now on you do want to raise for value every time you're in a hand with him.
Btw, did he raise you on the river?

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Postby BKAZ » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:56 pm

He called down on the river. No raise ??? maybe he feared the straight too
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Postby nolimpin » Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:32 am

I would have check/called the river for two reasons:

1) induce a bluff bet if he was on a busted draw

2) protect yourself from getting raised by a better hand

You played perfectly until the river, but in this case it wouldn't have made a difference. That's poker sometimes. And yes, the button is a horrible, loose passive player that should be at the top of your fish list.
When you have the odds, you become smart money.
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Postby odogg » Mon Dec 27, 2004 4:04 pm

"Pre flop: 1 early position limper, I have position and I don’t want the button to call with a medium hand so I raise. If I get reraised I will call and look for a flush draw or 2 pair. "

Just wanted to make a comment about this play. If you intention is to drive out a player then you should make your raise on the turn and not the flop. With so many seeing the flop there are times that raising the flop still provides sufficient odds to call for even a gutshot straight or 5 outer. However making the raise on the turn for big bets instead of small ones eliminates those odds.

example.

You hold AA in middle position and raise. 6 take the flop for 12 small bets total. The BB leads out and you are next to act. I think you should hold off on your raise until the turn. Make the rest of the field call 2 bb's cold and not 2 small. Especially with a vulnerable hand like a single pair or TPTK.
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Postby boftx » Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:36 pm

When you are ass-deep in alligators you must remember the main task is to drain the swamp!
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Postby piersmajestyk » Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:13 pm

I think you played the hand fine and I don't particularly dislike your river bet as these cats will stay in with any pair many times. I will value bet in this spot and if I get raised then I can muck and still sleep at night. Noone will ever fault me for not being aggressive all the way through a hand and sure it bites me in the ass every once in a while when I value bet the river but I think too many bets are left in general on the table. Sure there are times to check when about the only thing a guy could have is a busted draw and give him a chance to bluff at you but by and large I think these are much fewer than the times you should go ahead and fire in that last bet on the river. It is a very fine line that separates the majority of player in limit holdem from being slight losers to break even or winning players and alot of where you fall out in the crowd has to do with making the most out of that last Big Bet on the river. You can NOT be a winning limit holdem player if you are consistantly checking the river to marginal scare cards in my opinion. Good luck.
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