I play mostly on line at lower limits and when i do go to a B&M game i play 5-10 or 4-8, so i am used to playing against loose players. My question is what, if anything can be done about a super-maniac. They usually sit to my immediate left, raising and re-raising with any two cards and just keep making miracle after miracle. I tighten up and they seem to thrive on it and get more agrressive, showing bluffs and generally running all over me. If i fire back at them they just cap the pot. If i flop the nut str8, they will catch runner-runner flush cards and take the pot. I know you've all seen them in action.

I'm not whining or telling bad beat stories, i just want to know if there is a defense besides leaving the table before these guys self destruct and take me with them.

If you can, I suggest that you move seats when a spot to the immediate left of them opens up. This way, you get to act after them and you can play your tight game and isolate them by raising or 3 betting.

If you can't get to his left, i would keep leading into him when you have a moderately strong hand so hopefully he raises you and forces out draws or hands that are better than yours because likely you have the maniac beat. Also, if you see the table getting loose and being bullied by becoming passive, look for drawing hands lik 9Ts because you know if you hit, you will be winning a nice sized pot. Obviously your variance will be high this way but if you pick your moments, you can end up with a nice session.

The advice of the "Mad Genius" Mike Caro is short in length but if you really think through it, it is actually very deep.

When playing against a maniac: "Bet less, and Call more"


Jay

Jason says that Caro's advice is "bet less and call more" and I was advocating betting in some circumstances to use the maniac to drive people out (if you are to the immediate right of him). I don't know if Caro's advice is position dependent. You just have to be very careful about maniac because you don't want to let them rub off on you. Even bad players get good cards sometimes so don't overplay your hands. Call with lesser hands against them (mainly if its heads up) and push your strong ones. Expect higher variance and only draw with those drawing hands when the table has mainly become passive due to the maniac. You don't want to be caught in a raising war with an unmade drawing hand unless A LOT of people are trapped. You want to be looking for a table that will see the flop for 2 bets at most and let the maniac bet while other call so you can be getting great pot odds to hit it.

I played last night against a full on maniac. He was a "any two will do" player and who raised randomly every third hand and would limp reraise for fun. He also lead and raised loads. He also had that most annouying habit of all maniacs, he was winning and winning a lot. He was taking every pot that never hit showdown and really being winding up the table. Also he was to my left so I was having to really think about my play.

The tactic I decided on was to tighten up but when I had my hands mug him. At the end of the day no one likes to be taken for a ride so whenever I had something good I would fall in behind he betting. Since his betting and raising often meant any hand you were in with him would be heads up it was easy just to wait then I would check raise the turn. I was making sure I was playing solid hands against him but pushing harder when I felt I had it. I wasn't drawing to much unless with things like ace high flush as it was tough to figure you would have odds past the flop, especially multi-way due to betting and raising.

While I took a few lumps since the hands I was hitting I was able to make pay off larger I was actually able to make good progress. The point about using him to isolate was so true. When in hand you didn't want to many it was easy to open and let him raise making it two cold for anyone wanting to play. I would frequently cap the turn with hands like top pair when the board wasn't scary.

Infact this worked almost too well near the end since he started folding on the turn paying off less as he started getting wise. Nothing like getting muchos respect to make you feel good. By using him to isolate and prevent too many multi-way pots I found hands like top pair, two pair etc where working real well, the sort of stuff that normally gives you heart faliure.

It is sometimes more full contact than is comfortable but you don't have to hit every hand to come out ahead and playing "proper" poker will put you in the situations where you should be ahead more often that now. Hope this helps.

Rich

That is exactly the situation I was talking about when I made this post. The maniac was getting run over by the deck and when I had an overpair he would get a second pair on the river. I am glad it worked out for you and i will keep this in mind when it happens again. I think my temper may have caught up to me a little during my session, but i did still play solid starting hands ( i just failed to fold when I should have known I was beat).
I think the main thing that helped me though was a post or article on this site that ceman wrote about EV. It's hard to remember when you reaching into your pocket for another buy in that you will win that hand 8 of 9 times though.

I just broke a maniac last night in a tournament.

The guy had amazing luck. Three hands in a row, he called big bets on the flop needing 2 perfect cards on the turn & river to make his hand. And he got them. I started salivating.

This was an online tournament. There would be no moving seats to give myself the advantage.

So I waited. And I watched his play very closely, until I could predict very accurately exactly what he would do on the flop.

Then, when I found myself in a heads-up situation with him... with a good hand - the absolute nuts in this case... I played him. I knew exactly the play I needed to make to get him to push all his chips in. I knew he'd never call my all-in raise, but if I minimum bet the flop and then checked the turn, he'd all-in in an effort to push me off. I made that play at him and he bit... he left and my stack doubled.

Patience. Don't tilt. Don't think you'll ever get as lucky as the maniac does.

If you're patient, the cards and the chips will come. If you're impatient, your chips will go.