[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4783: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3888)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4785: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3888)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4786: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3888)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4787: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3888)
How do you play KJo? - Live Poker Forums

Advanced search

How do you play KJo?

Post your tough limit holdem hands here

Moderators: piersmajestyk, LPF Police Department

How do you play KJo?

Postby redhouse » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:05 am

This is one hand I have real trouble with.. Whats a sensible approach to it on a loose table (45-50% seeing the flop)?
User avatar
redhouse
 
Posts: 1583
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:21 am
Location: Stanford, CA

Postby Cactus Jack » Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:29 am

"Are the players better as the stakes go up? It's not an exam; it's a buyin." Barry Tanenbaum
User avatar
Cactus Jack
 
Posts: 3400
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:24 am
Location: Vegas, baby

Postby BKAZ » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:11 am

I am even stingier than CJ when it comes to playing trap hands like this.

I play KJo for free from the big blind or possibly as a blind steal attempt against tight blinds. Hands like KJo are called trap hands for a reason. Easily dominated and hard to lay down if you pair one of your cards. The only hands you can make and play aggressively with KJo is the straight or 2 pair and that doesn't hit one gappers that often. Even if you make trips any one playing back aggressively may have a FH or a better kicker. Any K or J will probably cause you to stick around until the river hoping to hit your kicker or that your kicker is good.

If you want to loosen up a bit and play more hands at a loose table I recommend playing more pairs and suited connectors as well as Axs if you can limp in behind 3 or 4 other limpers. Avoid unsuited non pairs, I would probably even be laying down AJo and ATo also unless I could get heads up by raising which is not likely at the table you describe.

Remember that it will be tougher to win a multiway pot with top pair top kicker. These are likely going to be taken down with sets, straights, and flushes.

For me KJo goes straight into the muck 99% of the time.

My 2 cents.

BK
User avatar
BKAZ
Enthusiast (Online)
 
Posts: 321
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:08 pm
Location: Mesa, AZ.

Postby Drade » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:33 am

BKAZ pretty much hit the nail on the head, but I'll add just a few things. The type of game you're describing is my personal favorite and the sort of game I look for. I like it because it lets you play more speculative hands, but you have to know that you're playing showdown poker. Meaning, at the end of the hand, you're going to have to show the best hand to win the pot. As such, you really only want to play two types of hands, very strong hands that are best now and can win without improvement, ie, big pairs, and hands that can flop big and play well against a lot of players, ie, suited connectors and some pocket pairs. Your medium big unsuited cards, KJo, QJo, J10o, etc are very marginal in this type of game because you're not going to hit your hand enough to make it profitable.

In this game, players are playing any hand that they want to play, regardless of the action before or after them. They don't care about position or table image. They just know they like THIS hand and are playing it. As such, it makes those medium strength hands really tough to play. The problem is you can't raise it, because nobody's going to fold, and all you've done is built a huge pot that you're far more likely to lose, and all the chasers will have their correct odds to chase the flop. If you limp, the pot is still big enough on the flop to give chasers their correct odds to draw against you, even if you hit your hand! Basically there is no good way to play this hand, and when there's no good way to play a hand, it's best not played. At best, even if you played this hand flawlessly, you're probably break even. I'd say save yourself the trouble and some money, and just wait for a better hand. Make it KJ suited though and I'd be all over it.

Drade
User avatar
Drade
 
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:27 am
Location: Herndon, Va

I dunno bout layin KJo in a game like that

Postby MecosKing » Fri Apr 15, 2005 11:49 am

I have played in many a game like that, and I think KJo's have more value in that type of game than they do in a tougher game. The domination problem is much worse in a tougher game because people are in there with better hands. For example, even if you are in LP with KJo in a tougher game, if there are a couple of limpers before you, you are often dominated by a KQ or an AJ or something like that, because tigher players often limp in EP with these hands.

The key about a hand like KJo in a game like that is to know when to get away from it. I mean, if you flop a K or a J as top pair, and have had 4 people chasing you the whole way, then all of a sudden someone raises you on the river when a straight card hits, or on ANY card for that matter (say they hit thier kicker or something) are you really any worse off with your KJ than you would be with AK? Not really!

Yes, KJo is definitely a trap hand. Its famous for that. KQ is a trap hand too, and JQ is probably the ultimate trap hand. BUT, when people are limping EP with stuff like J10o and 78s, then all of a sudden your KJo starts to look like a pretty nice hand.

I am a firm beleiver that when you are in Rome, you can do (somewhat) what the romans do. When people are playing bad cards, you can loosen up your requirements too. The trick is to try and make your requirements just a little higher than the other guys are. Hands that are marginal in tight games start becoming playable in loose games, as long as you dont start playing them too HARD, i.e. calling raises with them or somethign like that.

Okay, so maybe if the Romans are playing stuff like J6s UTG, then you cant be a true Roman. But, you can at least play a hand like a KJo for a profit, because your hand is very often the best, and when it holds up, you will win way more than anyone ever deserved to with a top pair hand.

KJs is obviously better than KJo, in ANY game, but i think in a loose game, especially if there isnt a hell of a lot of preflop raising (as there often is not) i say, play that KJo, especially in MP or LP.
NorthViewBTP: poor old ED
NorthViewBTP: from gun totin beer swiller
NorthViewBTP: to limp wristed defender of fagdom
NorthViewBTP: ALL THINGS TO ALL MEN
NorthViewBTP: IS THE SAME AS NO THINGS TO ANY MAN
--------------------
Mekos King: NV ignoring
Jimmy BTP: he's ignoring me too
Jimmy BTP: obv fell asleep in his colostomy bag
Jimmy BTP: running shite everywhere
---------
neelguru: I gave up politics when I was 6
neelguru: Im dedicating the rest of my life to getting unstuck
User avatar
MecosKing
Juffins FTW
 
Posts: 3715
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:42 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California

Postby redhouse » Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:05 am

Thank for the feedback guys.

Yeah, on the whole I agree with trapping hand diagnosis and do tend to stay away from it in early and mid position in a sane game. Just got to wondering because I keep running into fishy games on party where I fold it and then see the pot get taken down by hands like JTo or Kxs.

Of late I've started playing it a little more in these kind of games, even raising to isolate a loose limper sometimes and have had decent results so far. May be time to buy Turbo and run a few sims...
User avatar
redhouse
 
Posts: 1583
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:21 am
Location: Stanford, CA

I agree

Postby MecosKing » Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:51 am

NorthViewBTP: poor old ED
NorthViewBTP: from gun totin beer swiller
NorthViewBTP: to limp wristed defender of fagdom
NorthViewBTP: ALL THINGS TO ALL MEN
NorthViewBTP: IS THE SAME AS NO THINGS TO ANY MAN
--------------------
Mekos King: NV ignoring
Jimmy BTP: he's ignoring me too
Jimmy BTP: obv fell asleep in his colostomy bag
Jimmy BTP: running shite everywhere
---------
neelguru: I gave up politics when I was 6
neelguru: Im dedicating the rest of my life to getting unstuck
User avatar
MecosKing
Juffins FTW
 
Posts: 3715
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:42 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California


Return to Limit Hold'em Cash Games

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

cron