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These Hands Bugged Me - Live Poker Forums

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These Hands Bugged Me

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These Hands Bugged Me

Postby Tiburon » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:29 am

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with [8s], [As].
6 folds, CO raises, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) [3d], [8c], [9c] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.16 BB) [6c] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: (6.16 BB) [Ac] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.16 BB

Results in white below:
CO doesn't show.
Outcome: CO wins 9.16 BB.


Flop middle pair and lead. CO is a flat-out calling station. I end up with 2 pair, but with 4 clubs showing---the 4th club, the [Ac], also wakes up the calling station. I was certain he had a club and was just drawing. Any club beat me and A9 beat me. Should I have called the bet, or did I save myself a bet in the process?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with [Ac], [4s].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 6 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) [Jh], [3d], [7c] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, SB folds.

Turn: (2.50 BB) [8s] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

River: (2.50 BB) [Qs] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Ac 4s (high card, ace).
UTG+1 has 7h 4h (one pair, sevens).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 4.50 BB.


This guy called UTG+1 with 74s. He was extremely laggy, and he didn't even flinch at the bet with the Q on the river. Do I lose this regardless? How could I have played it better--he was 37%/12%/0.74 IIRC. I felt that with this idiot Ace-high could in fact be good.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with [Qs], [Js].
4 folds, Hero calls, 2 folds, SB raises, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) [Jd], [7c], [Qd] (3 players)
SB bets, BB raises, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) [5s] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, BB folds, Hero calls.

River: (10 BB) [Ad] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Results in white below:
SB has Ah As (three of a kind, aces).
Hero has Qs Js (two pair, queens and jacks).
Outcome: SB wins 12 BB.


I can't blame this guy for not laying down AA. Just bad luck with a guy hitting a two-outer that he likely didn't even know was behind.

Overall yesterday in 3 sessions:

Session 1: + $127 in 178 mins.
Session 2: + $ 85 in 24 mins.
Session 3: - $ 90 in 52 mins.

Overall: +$122 in 4.23 hours= $28.84/hour

Not bad for 1-table, eh?
"...Every time you cold call, god kills a puppy."
--JJSCOTT2

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Postby Ichoi » Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:38 am

Disclaimer: I don't know what I'm talking about! =x

1st hand: I know a lot of people might disagree with me, but I almost never bet into a 4 flush board if I don't have it. I tend to check/call most of the time here, and most of the time, I expect to be shown a club, most of the time... But that's the beauty of limit, you only have to catch him bluffing one in X (depending on pot size) to be profitable. In my experience, when I check/call the river with a set/two pair, I do catch them bluffing enough to make it profitable.

--

2nd hand: Why bet if you think ace high was maybe good? If it is good, then betting won't gain you anything... unless you actually think he'll call with less than ace high. (I don't)

I'd say you should only bet the river if you think he'll fold something better than ace high... and I just don't think he will here.
--

3rd hand: Well first, I think I would have 3 bet the turn. I expect to be shown AA or KK almost every time here. Aside from that, nothing you can do about the river. But he actually had 8 outs in this particular case.
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Postby Tiburon » Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:12 am

"...Every time you cold call, god kills a puppy."
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Postby Ichoi » Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:47 am

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Postby Tiburon » Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:50 am

"...Every time you cold call, god kills a puppy."
--JJSCOTT2

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Postby Ichoi » Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:09 am

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Postby Tiburon » Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:28 am

I'm analyzing it this way:

I'm the BB, and I wasn't going to not defend the blind with [As] [8s]. IIRC, he was about 34%/15%/0.65 or so. If he had just limped, I probably would've raised from the BB with A8s.

Flop: [3d] [8c] [9c]
I flopped middle pair, bet out and got raised. I thought this meant one of a few things (in order of likelihood):

1) He put me on overcards and he wanted to protect his hand.
2) He thought I was on the flush draw and he wanted to protect his hand.
3) He had flopped a low set with 33 (or unlikely 88) and wanted to build the pot.
4) He had an overpair and was protecting his hand.
5) He had flopped a flush draw and was looking to build a pot or take it down there.

The reason I felt that way is because he had shown down 3rd pair consistently since I had been at the table, and he seemed like pretty much of a donkey.

Turn: [6c]

This puts 3-to-a-flush on the board. I lead out after calling his flop raise. He then calls. Hindsight shows that he couldn't have the nut flush, so he may indeed have hit the set and got scared. I still don't think he had the set--just a hunch. I think he may have had top pair, but I really don't have the most solid read.

River: [Ac]

4-to-a-flush. I bet, he raises. If I hit the flush, raising there is suicidal. He can't have me on a high club in my hand (which was a correct read). It's my thought that he can't have a set here either because he couldn't possibly defend it with a raise with a 4-flush on board. I have to think that he sucked out a flush with some small club in his hand. I think he probably had the [Kc] or the [Qc] in his hand and a 9 of some sort.
It puts the flush draw on the board
Last edited by Tiburon on Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ichoi » Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:46 am

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Postby Tiburon » Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:02 pm

I love this kind of discussion!

Yes, you make perfect sense.
The read I had on him is that the only way I had a shot to win this hand without a club is to bet out on him and represent the club. When he raised, it told me that he had the club, and that if his hand wasn't good before, it was definitely good then, so either he had A9 and/or a club.

I figured at the time that a check would show weakness, and that if he bet into me (remember his 0.65 pFA), I'd be in the same boat. Only difference would be that I would have saved a bet.

My GT+ stats (as I always look at what other players see--using stats just for the session) were something like 15%/7%/3.00, so my table image is one of an extreme TAG.

The problem was that I had a lot of bets invested in the pot, and it just about killed me to lay this down. I was just certain when he raised that he had me beaten.

I played it poorly. I probably should have check/folded the turn, truthfully, but it was consistent with that 3rd session's tradition of me overplaying hands at a table full of donkeys.
"...Every time you cold call, god kills a puppy."
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Postby Nortonesque » Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:25 pm

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