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When to fold?

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When to fold?

Postby briachek » Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:20 am

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with [Jh], [Jc]. CO posts a blind of $2.
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO (poster) checks, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) [Td], [7h], [7d] (5 players)
BB bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO folds, Hero raises, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) [3c] (3 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, BB raises, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (14.25 BB) [5c] (3 players)
BB bets, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16.25 BB

Results in white below:
BB has 7c Ac (three of a kind, sevens).
Hero has Jh Jc (two pair, jacks and sevens).
Outcome: BB wins 16.25 BB.


Ok, one of my bigger leaks is not being able let go of overpairs. Is this normally a fold on the turn except against the most maniacal of opponents? I see hands like this all the time and its often won with top pair, or maybe those are just the ones I remember.
Brian [Js][9s]
Anyone who gets in a fair fight, has no tactical skills.
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Postby apokerlyptic » Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:48 am

The pair of 7s is the danger sign. With 5 players seeing the flop, it's very good odds that one of them has a 7. The raise on the turn would be a good signal to throw the jacks away. You've got a maximum of two outs on the river (and the jack of diamonds may complete a flush).[/u]
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Postby briachek » Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:02 pm

I definitely have two outs as the jack of diamonds would give me a boat. My problem is it leaves me open to anyone who pays attention to my play that they raise me, or check raise me on a pair board and I bail. Feels like people could just take pots from me.
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Postby piersmajestyk » Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:42 pm

I think you should be able to save two bets here. The BB played the hand well and got the maximum. Your flop raise is definately ok but when you get raised on the turn after you RAISED preflop, RAISED the flop, both with multiple players in and then bet the turn your hand is well defined as an overpair which is not 10's and yet the BB raised you on the turn anyway he has a 7 or a person could very well play QQ this way as well.

On line I wouldn't worry too much about people paying attention and stealing pots from you in hands like this. First off you probably won't be playing against a person long enough for him to get this type of read on you and if you do he will be a type of person that doesn't play many hands versus YOU who shouldn't be playing many hands as well so you won't come into conflict that often. Second sometimes you will have a hand and can punish them for this maneuver. Third, the VAST majority of poker players don't really care what you have, they are just looking at their hand and all else be damned. Good luck and don't be afraid to fold when you know you are beat:)
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