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Double barrel in a 3-bet pot - Live Poker Forums

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Double barrel in a 3-bet pot

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Double barrel in a 3-bet pot

Postby DoctorHandles » Sat May 10, 2008 3:33 am

Standard regular, 20/15 with decent stats all around. No particular history, most of the hands datamined.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Converter Tool from (Format: Bet The Pot)

MP ($301.85)
Button ($206)
SB ($265.50)
Hero ($258.05)
UTG ($217.85)

Preflop: Hero is BB with [Ah], [Qh].
1 fold, MP raises to $7, 2 folds, Hero raises to $27, MP calls $18.

Flop: ($53) [3c], [Ts], [Kh] (2 players)
Hero bets $35, MP calls $35.

Turn: ($123) [4d] (2 players)
Hero bets $72

Right now I almost never double barrel turns in 3-bet pots, trying to mix it up so they're not just always value bets and monster draws. Does this look like a good spot to do it?
Does it change if the board is twotone rather than rainbow?
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Postby Tatarana » Sat May 10, 2008 6:28 pm

I don't know if you bet the proper amount on turn but I like it. He probably would need some good notes on you to profitably try a bluff. I figured out how to float one year before incorporating 2-barreling draws into my repertoire.

I would say that chances are that he would take some time or experience to get it and fight it back.




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Postby iceman5 » Sat May 10, 2008 6:52 pm

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Postby DoctorHandles » Sat May 10, 2008 10:37 pm

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Postby ToastedMoses » Mon May 19, 2008 12:13 pm

I like dbl barreling in 3-bet pots, but this one is a little thin imo.

Its better to have a little more info as to how villain plays in 3-bet pots, what he defends with pre, will he peel with any piece of the flop/is he on the floaty side, what is his approx range for raising flops etc... just to have a better sense of his range on the turn.

Pure bricks (or rather perceived pure bricks) are generally not good barreling cards (as i'm sure you know) since they don't really change the board. In 3-bet pots I think this matters a bit less as your 2nd barrel will generally get more credit anyway. Knowing whether villain can peel the flop with a pair <Ts, however, would greatly inform your turn decision.

Most of the same logic that applies to barreling regular pots also applies to 3-bet pots, so I'd suggest betting again on overcard paint, on high,low,low,X boards, and also often when you pick up additional outs. Additionally, I like to barrel a little more frequently with a flopped draw. On this board with QJ, or had it been the 3h on the flop (even if the T had been something lower providing no gutshot.) with the intent to either take it down or set your own price to see the river. I like this better than checking as a number of the hands that will check behind will also fold to a bet and virtually never raise, some of the hands that would bet will now just call, hands he bets the turn with will not often fold to a c/r, and it sets you up with more options for river play.
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Postby ToastedMoses » Mon May 19, 2008 12:20 pm

"I saw this wino eating grapes, its like dude.... you have to wait." - Mitch Hedberg
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Postby TheCaeser » Tue May 20, 2008 8:48 pm

i dont play these limits and my advice is pretty much worthless...but i def like this play...bet sizing and all
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Postby TheCaeser » Tue May 20, 2008 8:50 pm

noob doesn't know how to delete posts[/quote]
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Postby bdon22 » Tue May 20, 2008 11:34 pm

I like it because he just called the flop. Nothing that flat calls the flop can stand the heat of a second barrel unless it's exactly AA or a set. You're folding out JJ/QQ/KQ a ton here which are his most probably hands given the action.
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Postby Meltinpot » Wed May 21, 2008 1:59 am

I like your 2nd barrel beacause you're behind right now most of the time and chances are good that he folds a better hand to your bet except of QQ,AA,AK.
In addition I think you would bet your strong hands OOP like 90% of the time on that turn, right?
Your bet size is also fine. Looks like you want a call.
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Postby Stoneburg » Wed May 21, 2008 2:56 am

Are you pushing the river if you miss? What if it's an A or Q?
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Postby Jossnaz » Wed May 21, 2008 4:24 am

Why is everybody so sure, villain would fold KQ there?
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Postby Stoneburg » Wed May 21, 2008 4:30 am

Huh? No way KQ is folding, Tx, JJ or QQ might fold but I don't see people folding TPGK after committing themself preflop and on the flop.
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Postby gsdavid » Wed May 21, 2008 9:05 am

I'm not sure I like it. Without you having history of 3betting light(so that Kxx board hits you like 20% of time) or him being a floater I would not double barrel here. I think too much of his calling range already folded flop so now you are facing sets, Kx that is not going to fold at any point, Tx (JTs, QTs, T9, T8s), AA, TT. I do like how we have 4 outs to the nuts and possibly 3 more to a high card(either we try to get to cheap showdown with Q on river or shove Ax). For starters I like double barreling flops where I know that villain is likely peal but is not creative enough to turn his made pp into bluff. I don't think you get a fold 33% of time on this board- your equity of draws of some 15%.

I mean, yeah you need a fold here about 20% of time with that bet size and that draw to be break even. I just doubt that there are many hands that are calling this flop and folding to turn bet. If his entire range is KK+,TT,33,AQs,KQs,QTs+,JTs,T8s+ , JJ, QQ
He has 9 set combos, 3 KQ combos that are never folding.
If we assume he floated SCs, then there are 2 QTs, 3 JTs, 3 T9s, 3 T8s combos + 2AQs, 6 JJ 6 QQ that he could be potentially be floating us with.

So there are 12 combos that will not fold but most likely will not shove turn for most part.
If he is floating JJ and QQ on that board(and he should if he elects to float Tx) then there are about 25 combos that could potentially fold turn.
So yeah given math this seems a good double barrel spot due to Tx giving you a good number of SC's that could float.
Still, this is not a flop that I would double barrel often since we dont know his range nor how if he floats or not.
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Postby johnnie_naked » Fri May 23, 2008 6:37 pm

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