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When to take your foot off the gas?

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When to take your foot off the gas?

Postby odogg » Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:54 am

200 NL table. I have a 225 dollar stack and am dealt KK UTG+2. UTG limps into me and I make it 10 to go. There are 2 callers in late position both with similar sized stacks.

Flop comes a very friendly

8c 4d 3s

I fire a pot sized bet of 35 dollars and get 1 smooth call. The pot is now 105 and I have 140 remaining. This is where my question is. Do you take your foot off the pedal now? He just called a pot sized bet with a rainbow flop of all unders to your kings. I have little to no read on him since I just sat down.

I will share the results later but just want to get an impression on what your next action would be.
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Postby t-bone » Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:11 am

I think I'm gonna pay off the set of 8's here. He could just as easily have [Qc] [Qs], [Jd] [Jh] or [Ts] [Th] and think he's ok. Maybe he's got you for AhKs or something and will call it down. But i'm a noob so let the pros handle this one :D
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Postby tetsuo » Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:24 am

After he called, what was the turn card? I am no expert but what the turn came is surely a big factor?
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Postby odogg » Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:41 am

I apologize for that.

Turn was a 10 I believe. More specifically a under to you K.
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Postby tetsuo » Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:32 am

So he's not drawing to a straight (A2 or 56 seem very unlikely) or a flush.

Two pair is unimaginable with a board like that.

So the remaining options are AK, an overpair, or a set.

Since you were the preflop raiser and then bet into him, he must surely reasonably credit you with wired jacks, queens, kings, or AK.

By the preflop action, I would rule out AA and KK for him. So his likely holdings are AK, QQ, JJ, TT, 88, 44 or 33.

If you check he is likely to bet. No matter what he bets, you are liable to call, as there doesn't seem to be enough information about his holding to believe for sure you are beat.

If you check, he might also take a free card, which you definitely don't want.

If you bet 'weakly' (half pot), you are pretty much pot committed anyway and must make a crying call if he raises. If he calls, you are pretty much none the wiser to his holding and he'll put the rest in on the river anyway, as you don't have enough left to put any pressure on him.

So for me the only answer is all-in.

I'm sure there are better strategies, but as a simple minded NL50 player, I can't think of any!
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Postby iceman5 » Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:41 am

In the higher stakes games, you'll alot of players check there, but if you do that youre going to have to be willing to call him down anyway. A free card probably wont hurt you if you check becuase there are no draws.

Personally, I would bet about half pot and see what he does. He could have called you with a variety of hands.
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Postby tetsuo » Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:46 am

Yeah, but if you see a J, Q or A come on the river you're going to be really unhappy, right?

Since you're going to call him down anyway, why not put the pressure on him? If you check-call the turn, he's going to gain confidence (as you've gone from a bettor to a caller) and probably put you all in on the river anyway.

I suppose check-raise big if he bets weakly is also an option?
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Postby Mad Genius » Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:56 pm

I would think that most players raise with a set there. You've shown that you have a good hand and your opponent should have no reason to believe you won't call a raise, unless he puts you on AK. This makes it seem more likely that he has JJ or possibly QQ, although a case could be made that he would have re-raised PF with QQ. If you have any read on this player, it would definately be helpful in narrowing down the range of his hands. In general, I would lead out for about $40 here and would probably fold to a all-in re-raise. If he just calls, I check the river.

By the way, what were the results?
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Postby odogg » Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:42 pm

I decided to put us all in there. He flipped over a set of 8's and took it down.

I really feel I am going to make an adjustment in my game because if I have AA, KK, QQ or AK (and have TPTK) and my flop pot sized bet is called I am not going to pull the trigger with a pot sized bet on the turn unless I improve.

At present if you hit a set then you may as well say you won my stack and that is something I want to work on.

Thanks for the replys.
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