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Zen and the Art of Bankroll Maintenance - Live Poker Forums

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Zen and the Art of Bankroll Maintenance

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Postby kennyg » Fri May 11, 2007 12:38 pm

"I'll take KennyGs advice before Sklanskys every time. "
-Iceman

Proud contributing member of the Poker Player's Alliance.
Poker Journal:
forum/viewtopic.php?p=14017#14017
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Postby pokerzen » Fri May 11, 2007 12:47 pm

And another. 1-outed this time. That was pleasant.

- TheWall1984 sitting in seat 1 with $49.77
- mnb15 sitting in seat 2 with $105.75
- joesoccerus sitting in seat 3 with $48.25 [Dealer]
- pokerzen sitting in seat 4 with $109.14
- Hekanderi sitting in seat 5 with $31.25
- Mel74 sitting in seat 6 with $43.88

pokerzen posted the small blind - $0.25
Hekanderi posted the big blind - $0.50
** Dealing card to pokerzen: [Tc] [Kh] [Kc] [Qh]
Mel74 called - $0.50
TheWall1984 called - $0.50
mnb15 folded
joesoccerus folded
pokerzen raised - $2.50
Hekanderi folded
Mel74 called - $2.50
TheWall1984 called - $2.50

** Dealing the flop: [Jc] [Ks] [7c]
pokerzen bet - $4.10
Mel74 folded
TheWall1984 called - $4.10

** Dealing the turn: [2s]
pokerzen bet - $16.20
TheWall1984 called - $16.20

** Dealing the river: [2c]
pokerzen bet - $7.59
TheWall1984 went all-in - $26.97
pokerzen called - $26.97
TheWall1984 shows: [Kd] [2d] [2h] [Qs]
pokerzen mucks: [Tc] [Kh] Kc] [Qh]
TheWall1984 wins $99.54 from the main pot

End of game 1378492346
<Big_Leon> start with the RAZZ tourney?
<pokerzen1> when did the razz tourney start?
<Big_Leon> starts in 2 minutes
<Big_Leon> just drew seats
<pokerzen1> too late then
<pokerzen1> damn damn damn
<Big_Leon> no, it's not too late gogogogogo
<pokerzen1> what's the tourney number?
<Big_Leon> 55852225
<Big_Leon> password is - irunbad i think
<Big_Leon> irunbad
<pokerzen1> made it :)
<pokerzen1> okay now how do you play razz?
<Big_Leon> i have no idea
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Postby pokerzen » Fri May 11, 2007 12:48 pm

<Big_Leon> start with the RAZZ tourney?
<pokerzen1> when did the razz tourney start?
<Big_Leon> starts in 2 minutes
<Big_Leon> just drew seats
<pokerzen1> too late then
<pokerzen1> damn damn damn
<Big_Leon> no, it's not too late gogogogogo
<pokerzen1> what's the tourney number?
<Big_Leon> 55852225
<Big_Leon> password is - irunbad i think
<Big_Leon> irunbad
<pokerzen1> made it :)
<pokerzen1> okay now how do you play razz?
<Big_Leon> i have no idea
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Postby kennyg » Fri May 11, 2007 1:21 pm

"I'll take KennyGs advice before Sklanskys every time. "
-Iceman

Proud contributing member of the Poker Player's Alliance.
Poker Journal:
forum/viewtopic.php?p=14017#14017
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Postby Pok 7's » Fri May 11, 2007 2:00 pm

Actually they both shared the K and Q, plus PZ had the T as well so any A gave PZ a str8. His oponent wouild have had to catch a running T and A, and even then it would've been a split pot. Had an A hit PZ would've won with the A high straight, since his opponent lacked another bradway card.

You have to use 2 from your hand plus 3 from the board. So for example if the board looked something like [Jc] [Ks] [7c] [Td] [Ah]

They would both make a str8..... The [Jc] [Td] and [Ah]....From the board....Plus the K and Q in their hands.

Had JUST an A hit PZ could use the [Tc] and [Qh] from his hand and the [Jc] [Ks] plus whatever A that hit (3 cards from the board). Same would've happened if any 9 hit as well. PZ would've made a K high straight..... Basically about the ONLY way his opponent could've won was with exactly what happened..... Tough beat Zen.
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Postby emmasdad » Fri May 11, 2007 2:07 pm

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2638455
pokenum -o kd qs 2h 2d - kc kh qh tc -- jc ks 7c
Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing Ks Jc 7c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qs Kd 2d 2h 1 0.12 801 97.68 18 2.20 0.012
Kc Tc Kh Qh 801 97.68 1 0.12 18 2.20 0.988
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Postby pokerzen » Fri May 11, 2007 2:10 pm

So it's not my imagination ... I am unlucky.
<Big_Leon> start with the RAZZ tourney?
<pokerzen1> when did the razz tourney start?
<Big_Leon> starts in 2 minutes
<Big_Leon> just drew seats
<pokerzen1> too late then
<pokerzen1> damn damn damn
<Big_Leon> no, it's not too late gogogogogo
<pokerzen1> what's the tourney number?
<Big_Leon> 55852225
<Big_Leon> password is - irunbad i think
<Big_Leon> irunbad
<pokerzen1> made it :)
<pokerzen1> okay now how do you play razz?
<Big_Leon> i have no idea
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Location: I'm from Canada, eh.

Postby Pok 7's » Fri May 11, 2007 3:28 pm

You run in Omaha about as good as I run at LHE. :)
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Postby pokerzen » Fri May 11, 2007 3:59 pm

I think I might have figured out a way around it with some of Slotboom's ideas ... it has to do with ROI ... I'll try it out a bit and see if it goes well ... if it does ... I'll post.

/ it's a bad spell when you're actually counting on bad luck.
<Big_Leon> start with the RAZZ tourney?
<pokerzen1> when did the razz tourney start?
<Big_Leon> starts in 2 minutes
<Big_Leon> just drew seats
<pokerzen1> too late then
<pokerzen1> damn damn damn
<Big_Leon> no, it's not too late gogogogogo
<pokerzen1> what's the tourney number?
<Big_Leon> 55852225
<Big_Leon> password is - irunbad i think
<Big_Leon> irunbad
<pokerzen1> made it :)
<pokerzen1> okay now how do you play razz?
<Big_Leon> i have no idea
User avatar
pokerzen
Pro (Online)
 
Posts: 1742
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:36 pm
Location: I'm from Canada, eh.

Postby pokerzen » Fri May 11, 2007 5:04 pm

I'll start sounding out the thoughts now actually ... Rolf brings up a lot of good points around the short-stack strategy ... and it's really gotten me to thinking ... not about adopting it wholesale ... but incorporating it into a larger strategy.

By starting out with a short buyin ... say 25% ... you can put yourself into a lot of good situations and get all your chips in preflop or on the flop. Since no-one is scared of your stack size ... you can get callers. Basically any AAxx .... KKxx ... or wrap you can shove (this is not exactly Rolf's strategy but a modification.) Since we know that no hand is that dominant over another ... you can expect to win often enough. When you do win ... you're likely to triple up rather than double.

I ran the idea by Ed, and he suggested that once you double or triple up ... to then complete the buyin. There's no real advantage to sitting with 1/2 stack or 3/4 stack.

At this point ... I would deviate from Rolf's strategy, and change gears into my regular game. Basically ... I'm looking for my opponent's to pay the better part of my buyin for me ... it's kind of like the catapult theory but a little different.

This would decrease (IMO) the downside of things ... whereas I'm not putting as much of my own money at risk ... essentially playing off my winnings. (On a daily basis, not just as a whole.) The return on investment on any given day I can see would be higher and it limits the loss end.

There's a couple of ancillary benefits to this that I can see as well.

a) It screws with your table image. People will think of you as wild, reckless and lucky. You will get action later on.
b) It screws with your poker tracker stats. Anyone using the software will view you as maniacal even when you tighten up as your stack builds.

I'm giving this a whirl. I already tried at 2 tables this evening. Results:

50PLO table ... bought in for $10 ... tripled up ... completed buyin ... won another hand ... logged out with $65. Profit = $45

20PLO table ... bought in for $5 ... lost first allin ... reloaded ... one the 2nd allin 3-way ... currently still sitting there with $14.00 ... will probably add the other $6 myself.

The only downside I can see to this really at the moment ... is hitting an enormous hand and not taking down an enormous pot with it.
<Big_Leon> start with the RAZZ tourney?
<pokerzen1> when did the razz tourney start?
<Big_Leon> starts in 2 minutes
<Big_Leon> just drew seats
<pokerzen1> too late then
<pokerzen1> damn damn damn
<Big_Leon> no, it's not too late gogogogogo
<pokerzen1> what's the tourney number?
<Big_Leon> 55852225
<Big_Leon> password is - irunbad i think
<Big_Leon> irunbad
<pokerzen1> made it :)
<pokerzen1> okay now how do you play razz?
<Big_Leon> i have no idea
User avatar
pokerzen
Pro (Online)
 
Posts: 1742
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:36 pm
Location: I'm from Canada, eh.

Postby Pok 7's » Fri May 11, 2007 5:51 pm

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Pok 7's
 
Posts: 3831
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Location: ...Halfway between card dead and missing flops

Postby mscanlon » Fri May 11, 2007 5:58 pm

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Postby pokerzen » Fri May 11, 2007 7:08 pm

<Big_Leon> start with the RAZZ tourney?
<pokerzen1> when did the razz tourney start?
<Big_Leon> starts in 2 minutes
<Big_Leon> just drew seats
<pokerzen1> too late then
<pokerzen1> damn damn damn
<Big_Leon> no, it's not too late gogogogogo
<pokerzen1> what's the tourney number?
<Big_Leon> 55852225
<Big_Leon> password is - irunbad i think
<Big_Leon> irunbad
<pokerzen1> made it :)
<pokerzen1> okay now how do you play razz?
<Big_Leon> i have no idea
User avatar
pokerzen
Pro (Online)
 
Posts: 1742
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:36 pm
Location: I'm from Canada, eh.

Postby pokerzen » Sat May 12, 2007 10:02 am

<Big_Leon> start with the RAZZ tourney?
<pokerzen1> when did the razz tourney start?
<Big_Leon> starts in 2 minutes
<Big_Leon> just drew seats
<pokerzen1> too late then
<pokerzen1> damn damn damn
<Big_Leon> no, it's not too late gogogogogo
<pokerzen1> what's the tourney number?
<Big_Leon> 55852225
<Big_Leon> password is - irunbad i think
<Big_Leon> irunbad
<pokerzen1> made it :)
<pokerzen1> okay now how do you play razz?
<Big_Leon> i have no idea
User avatar
pokerzen
Pro (Online)
 
Posts: 1742
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:36 pm
Location: I'm from Canada, eh.

Postby pokerzen » Wed May 16, 2007 10:15 am

<Big_Leon> start with the RAZZ tourney?
<pokerzen1> when did the razz tourney start?
<Big_Leon> starts in 2 minutes
<Big_Leon> just drew seats
<pokerzen1> too late then
<pokerzen1> damn damn damn
<Big_Leon> no, it's not too late gogogogogo
<pokerzen1> what's the tourney number?
<Big_Leon> 55852225
<Big_Leon> password is - irunbad i think
<Big_Leon> irunbad
<pokerzen1> made it :)
<pokerzen1> okay now how do you play razz?
<Big_Leon> i have no idea
User avatar
pokerzen
Pro (Online)
 
Posts: 1742
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:36 pm
Location: I'm from Canada, eh.

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