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Flush draw and trips

Postby iceman5 » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:59 pm

$1/$2 limit Omaha Hi / Lo

I limp in after a limper with [Qh][9h][Td][Ts].

4 to the flop of [Ah][Kh][9c]. Checked to me and I bet. 2 callers.
Turn is the [9s]. Checked to me and I bet again. Now the BB check raises. Other guy folds. Do I call him down here?

If this was Pot Limit would it be a fold if he made a big raise?
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Postby emmasdad » Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:02 pm

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Postby iceman5 » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:35 pm

Why fold preflop? Thats not a decent hand?

3 cards to a straight, a decent pair and single suited.

How bad is it? Seriously, I really have no idea.
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Postby PZ » Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:22 am

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Postby Stoneburg » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:51 pm

Actually in LO8 I think it's a pretty bad hand and I just fold it preflop. In PLO8 I might play it. In the pot limit version you want hands where you can put pressure on your opponent, and position is super important. In limit you're looking for showdown value, which basically means the nuts.

In limit very few hands that don't contain an A2, A3 or 23 are playable (and many A3 and 23 hands should be dumped too). If you're playing a high-only hand it has to be absolutely premium. QTT9s is a "middle" hand, and exactly the sort of hand that you can't play. Think of it this way, often the pot is split between the nut low(s) and the nut high. Your hand can't make a low, so to start with you're only competing for half the pot, and it is unlikely to make the nut high. Basically you're gonna be the guy whos money is carved up between the two nut hands.

Hands like 9876ds who are monsters in PLO needs to be mucked preflop here. The correct AMOUNT of hands to play is about the same as in the high game, but since most of your playable hands are made up of low hands, you obviously need to ditch all but the very best of high hands.


Here's some general rules for hand selection:

Almost any A2 is playable unless it's been raised and re-raised before it gets to you.

A3 and 23 are not good against raises, since a raise often signifies A2. In an unraised pot, they can be played if they have at least something going for them (like nice cards, good position, bad opponents...)


When it comes to high hands one rule is that 9's suck. Just as A's are the best cards, 9's are the worst since they are the lowest cards that can't make a low. 8's and 7's also diminish a hand.

For a high-only hand to be playable it needs all 4 cards to be T or higher and should preferably be suited.


The specific hand...

The turn check/raise can't be a draw (no low draw out and you have the NFD), so it means a made hand. Here it's almost certainly a full house and you're drawing to 0-3 outs.
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Postby emmasdad » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:51 pm

Playing middle cards in LO8 is a major leak. You will either be playing for half, or subjecting yourself to higher straight redraws and your flush draws are not to the nuts. Second best high only hands are killers. Even if you hit top set, either a higher straight draw or a low draw is going to hit a high percentage of the time (unless the board double pairs).

QTT9ss ranks 1253/5278 in Bill Boston's tables, and has a -.1bb/hand expectation.
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Postby Ojingo » Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:47 pm

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Postby Triple B » Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:58 pm

Villain: Why?
Villain: How?
Me: I had a feeling
Villian: Sit in you cretin
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Postby emmasdad » Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:09 pm

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