How hard to push top set on draw-heavy board?

[stickdude]

Villian here is a typical PLO$25 donk. if he happens to have a monster straight wrap + FD, I'm in big trouble, but I haven't really seen too many people on this site push big draws - they'll usually wait until they have a made hand.

Omaha Hi $0.25-$0.50 PL (real money), hand #534,375,531
Table Funafuti, 27 May 2006 3:09 PM ET

Seat 1: CMBellman ($24.50 in chips)
Seat 2: glyn2505 ($33.95 in chips)
Seat 3: Shock88d ($13.35 in chips)
Seat 4: stickperson [ ,[Qd],[Qc],[Ad] ] ($31.35 in chips)
Seat 5: AlgebraFreak ($23.75 in chips)
Seat 6: sirflatland ($25.00 in chips)
Seat 7: bruinboi ($13.50 in chips)
Seat 8: PANZERF4UST ($56.90 in chips)
Seat 9: casperfc ($30.55 in chips)
Seat 10: Robbert10 ($145.15 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
Shock88d posts blind ($0.25), stickperson posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
AlgebraFreak folds, sirflatland calls $0.25, bruinboi folds, PANZERF4UST calls $0.25, casperfc folds, Robbert10 calls $0.25, CMBellman bets $0.50, glyn2505 folds, Shock88d calls $0.25, stickperson calls $0.25, sirflatland calls $0.25, PANZERF4UST calls $0.25, Robbert10 calls $0.25.

FLOP [board cards ,[Qh],[7s] ]
Shock88d checks, stickperson bets $3, sirflatland bets $12, PANZERF4UST folds, Robbert10 folds, CMBellman folds, Shock88d folds, stickperson ?????

On a board like this, there's no way I'm slowplaying top set. I'm also not folding here. So, is this a "call and wait for a safe turn" or a "pooooosh"?

[Ojingo]

[Aisthesis]

Pushing is better, as it gives you a free card to fill up if you're behind on the turn.

Just a fun "trivia" question: What is actually "the nuts" on that flop?

[GodlikeRoy]

?

[Felonius_Monk]

[Kuso]

[Aisthesis]

[Felonius_Monk]

I believe the actual definition of the "nuts" is quite simply "the best hand", not necessarily taking into account your opponent or the possible draws on board. In this case that's clearly top set plus top flush draw, it's a fairly moot point (I guess) as to what the best sidecard to that is. I think a T is better than a K as it blocks more straights (although the K blocks one possible overboat).

I just hate raising less than pot here ais. You're basically saying "let's give him a cheaper shot at drawing now in order to potentially make a slightly better play on a later street which may or may not occur as you have foreseen it".

The turn might make a draw, your opponent may fold a full pot bet but take a shot when you give him odds by betting less (I know I would!). As well as giving your opponent opportunity to make an error on the turn by calling pot, you dig a similar grave for yourself if the board shows a draw that your opponent has hit - you might even have let him see it on a hand that he'd have folded otherwise! There is a reason the best players in the world bet/raise pot here with top set - because it's the best play.

Occasional mini bets with the nut set can be a good play, but more for disguise than anyhing else. Don't try to make pseudo-mathematical pot-manipulations with top-heavy hands because (as my slightly lame pet name for them suggests) they play best on the top streets.

[Aisthesis]

"The stack just aren't deep enough for you to be making any sort of error by raising and re-raising."

Ok, so how do you play it if the stacks are deeper? Flat call? Re-raise pot?

As to the definition of the nuts: I agree, but AKT9ds is a better hand than most QQ hands, including the one that stick has. "Best hand" I'm defining as the one that is current favorite to win at showdown.

[stickdude]

I pushed, he called with second set - JJxx, and didn't improve.

[Felonius_Monk]

[Kuso]

[Felonius_Monk]

[Kuso]