Omaha is my new thing(I change main game more often than.. well.. something I change often...).I can't take the variance of cash games so SnGs is my best bet. Wanted to post this, both for comments on my play and reality check

PokerStars Game #3677760558: Tournament #18259945, Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2006/01/18 - 15:02:49 (ET)
Table '18259945 1' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: CTsSkillet (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: oyvindgee (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: stingher (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: dsoxfan (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: BigEarn 04 (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: rubytoo (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: bobbirdiii (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: AJB444 (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: GREATBRITTON (1500 in chips)
oyvindgee: posts small blind 10
stingher: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to oyvindgee [3s 2s As Td]
dsoxfan: folds
BigEarn 04: folds
rubytoo: folds
bobbirdiii: calls 20
AJB444: folds
GREATBRITTON: calls 20
CTsSkillet: raises 40 to 60
oyvindgee: calls 50
stingher: calls 40
bobbirdiii: raises 260 to 320
GREATBRITTON: folds
CTsSkillet: calls 260
oyvindgee: calls 260
stingher: calls 260
*** FLOP *** [Js Ac 9s]
oyvindgee: bets 1180 and is all-in
stingher: calls 1180 and is all-in
bobbirdiii: calls 1180 and is all-in
CTsSkillet: folds
*** TURN *** [Js Ac 9s]
*** RIVER *** [Js Ac 9s 9c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
oyvindgee: shows [3s 2s As Td] (HI: three of a kind, Aces)
stingher: shows [Qs Ts 3c 5d] (HI: a pair of Aces)
bobbirdiii: shows [7d 3h 5c 4h] (HI: a pair of Aces)
oyvindgee collected 4840 from pot
No low hand qualified
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4840 | Rake 0
Board [Js Ac 9s 9c Ad]
Seat 1: CTsSkillet (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: oyvindgee (small blind) showed [3s 2s As Td] and won (4840) with HI: three of a kind, Aces
Seat 3: stingher (big blind) showed [Qs Ts 3c 5d] and lost with HI: a pair of Aces
Seat 4: dsoxfan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: BigEarn 04 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: rubytoo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: bobbirdiii showed [7d 3h 5c 4h] and lost with HI: a pair of Aces
Seat 8: AJB444 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: GREATBRITTON folded before Flop


I haven't played this game in a while and I'm sure my play in this hand could improve a lot. Is it okay to just call preflop? And the flop push? And last but not least, if bobbirdiii is a regular, I'll never stop playing these

well, i think your preflop call isn't too bad since you got a suited ace and low draw protection. I hate the flop push there. i can't believe 2 people called you and one didn't have you beat.

10+1 at Stars

I guess this is just a question of how much you think winning this pot will help your chances of winning the SnG.

These numbers are total WAGs so bear with me. Lets say that
- You have an ROI of 40%.
- You get called 40% of the time
- When you get called you have an average EV or 40%
- If nobody calls you your larger stack and table image gives you an ROI of 50%
- If you get called and win your ROI goes up to 90%

If you fold your EV on the SnG is $15 (rounded down because you have lost some chips) so your total is +$4.

If you push there are 3 possibilitities
You get called and lose
You get called and win
You don't get called

You get called and lose
You are going to lose $11 but you will be able to immediately buy into a new SnG so.

EV = (-11 + 4.4) * .4 * .6 = -1.58

You get called and win
EV = (11 * .9) * .4 * .4 = 1.58

You don’t get called
EV = (11 * .5) * .6 = 3.3

Total EV = -1.6 + 1.6 + 3.3 = 3.5

These numbers are total WAGs so adjust them as you see fit. With my estimates it looks pretty close but I would still opt to fold and wait. In a SnG you don't want odds to call you want to survive.

I'd like to thank both Gooper and JD for a greal analysis. I wont pretend like I could do those calculations at the table if in that situation again, but it sure helps seeing some numbers on these situations. I still believe I'd make the push again because I have found that with a good grip on playing as a big stack, you have a bigger advantage of the chips than in Hold Em. When it gets near the money, people wont play the chipleader without AA23 or something like that. In some tourneys I have been able to steal the blinds with only a 2x raise 5 or 6 times in a row(out of the blinds that is). It seems to me that the field in these are split among the maniacs(out the first couple of orbits), and the über tight, these are actually quite common. If you can adjust to the shrinking number of players, I believe these should be a gold mine.

10+1 I think it's not a great flop push as you're too likely to be called.

In general however I think the flop push isn't too bad at all. With TWO players in for a significant chunk preflop, it's not a bad bet that they both have an ace, therefore no-one has a set of aces more often than not here. The jack and 9 are real "bricks" in PLO8 and although someone could of course have AJ with two low cards, and would thus call, I suspect you've got significant fold equity here. I would imagine IF you're playing against decent players (obviously not at 10+1 level) there's a chance of pushing them all out. That said, it's not a play I make in this spot.

I also think that in a tourney structure with omaha, building a big stack early on is more valuable than it is in holdem.

If I remember rightly a backdoor low-draw when your opponent doesn't have one is worth around 10% added equity, so it's a significant consideration in PLO8 when pushing or deciding to call a raise (for instance, with a bare flush draw you probably would shy away from calling a flop full-bet that puts you all in at PLO; in PLO8, if you also have a backdoor nut low draw your share of the equity is almost certainly over 33%).

For your info, I believe a backdoor low draw with counterfeit protection (eg. 234 on a flop containing an ace) is worth as much as 15% extra equity against someone with a high only hand, which isn't small potatoes.