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River play (and other streets) in FLO8 again

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River play (and other streets) in FLO8 again

Postby Stoneburg » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:57 pm

Loose/passive table most of the time as usual. I don't have any reads since I have a heard enough time figuring out what *I* hold.

#1
Dealt to Hero [6h] [3c] [2s] [As]
Marlboro33 calls [$0.50].
POKERDOG9876 calls [$0.50].
Hero raises [$1].
mantlemic77 folds.
LuckyBarrel folds.
Dont_trips calls [$0.75].
fsumoney calls [$0.50].
Marlboro33 calls [$0.50].
POKERDOG9876 calls [$0.50].

That's a damn nice hand, definetely worth a raise.

** Dealing Flop ** [Th] [4s] [7s]
Dont_trips checks.
fsumoney checks.
Marlboro33 checks.
POKERDOG9876 checks.
Hero bets [$0.50].
Dont_trips calls [$0.50].
fsumoney calls [$0.50].
Marlboro33 calls [$0.50].
POKERDOG9876 calls [$0.50].

Nice flop. I am going to bet this in position every time, twice on tuesdays. Nut lowdraw, nut flushdraw, and a gutshot (that I didn't notice to be honest). As usual everyone calls. SHOULD I be betting my draws like this when I pretty much KNOW everyone (or almost everyone) will call? I just HAVE to have a huge equity here.

** Dealing Turn ** [Kc]
Dont_trips checks.
fsumoney checks.
Marlboro33 checks.
POKERDOG9876 checks.
Hero bets [$1].
Dont_trips calls [$1].
fsumoney calls [$1].
Marlboro33 folds.
POKERDOG9876 calls [$1].

Ok that's NOT a good card. Any spade, A, 2, 3, 5, 6 or 8 would have been a good card. That's 25 cards damnit... or something. More than half the deck anyway. Still, my hand didn't improve but with that many outs it has to be OK to bet, right?

** Dealing River ** [5d]
Dont_trips checks.
fsumoney bets [$1].
POKERDOG9876 calls [$1].
Hero raises [$2].
Dont_trips folds.
fsumoney raises [$2].
POKERDOG9876 folds.
Hero calls [$1].
fsumoney shows [3d] [9c] [6d] [Kh] a straight, three to seven.
fsumoney shows 7,6,5,4,3 for low.
Hero shows [6h] [3c] [2s] [As] a straight, three to seven.
Hero shows 7,5,4,2,A for low.
Hero wins $4.44 from the main pot with a straight, three to seven.
fsumoney wins $4.44 from the main pot with a straight, three to seven.
Hero wins Lo ($8.87) from the main pot with 7,5,4,2,A.

Got the middle-pin straight, not the nut straight but how likely is 68 here..? Well.. probably not that unlikely, ok, but with the nut low and a straight I have to raise here, right? When he confidently re-raises me I get a bit worried... What the hell? He has the same straight as me and a much worse low... why did he go nuts on the river?! On a side note.. what the hell kind of a hand is K963 to play in this game? What the hell are people doing!?

------------------------------------------
#2
Dealt to Hero [Ad] [2d] [As] [2h]
Hero calls [$0.50].
MustangChuck folds.
gammoned folds.
LLBD7 folds.
Whitby1982 calls [$0.50].
duvix calls [$0.50].
indfin folds.
btvikesfan calls [$0.25].
panicinhanoi checks.

Should I be raising this hand UTG? I figure I want a multiway pot with lots of people drawing at worse low, since the chance of anyone else having A2 is very diminished. If someone had raised I would have re-raised though.

** Dealing Flop ** [6c] [7c] [Jd]
btvikesfan checks.
panicinhanoi checks.
Hero bets [$0.50].
Whitby1982 calls [$0.50].
duvix calls [$0.50].
btvikesfan calls [$0.50].
panicinhanoi folds.

Humm... I got no high draw, should I be betting a naked nut low (Ok, and overpair) into a field?

** Dealing Turn ** [Jh]
btvikesfan checks.
Hero checks.
Whitby1982 checks.
duvix bets [$1].
btvikesfan calls [$1].
Hero calls [$1].
Whitby1982 calls [$1].

Now there is no way my high is good so I decide to slow down, I should be the only one with the nut low draw though so easy call. Also, I now count Aces as outs since I'll get the nut full.

** Dealing River ** [5c]
btvikesfan checks.
Hero checks.
Whitby1982 bets [$1].
duvix calls [$1].
btvikesfan calls [$1].
Hero raises [$2].
Whitby1982 calls [$1].
duvix folds.
btvikesfan folds.
Hero shows [Ad] [2d] [As] [2h] two pairs, aces and jacks.
Hero shows 7,6,5,2,A for low.
Whitby1982 shows [4h] [8d] [Kc] [Ac] a flush, ace high.
Whitby1982 shows 7,6,5,4,A for low.
Whitby1982 wins $6.88 from the main pot with a flush, ace high.
Hero wins Lo ($6.87) from the main pot with 7,6,5,2,A.

On the river I go for the check/raise since I am fairly sure I am getting half the pot. Unfortunately I get no over callers. Is this too aggressive?
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Postby Ojingo » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:19 pm

#1 On every street do whatever you think gets the most money in the pot. You're not looking to limit the field here, you're only concern is to build a huge pot (and to hit your draws).

#2 Your hand plays well in a multiway pot, so there is nothing wrong with a limp. Your hand will also do well HU, although the paired 2 is not a good feature. You still need to get a good flop.
Flop: here's the thing: you have to make a low in order to make money here. After a raise preflop against reasonable opponents it is likely that someone else is drawing to the nut low (even though you are holding AA22), because not many people will call with an A3 hand preflop and draw to the second low. So, there is a chance you are playing for a quarter (which is not a disaster if the others stay in, but not terribly profitable). If you think your opponents are bad enough to chase worse lows, then you have equity to bet. It could get expensive when it gets raised behind you though, so if the game is aggressive I might check-call.

My line would be to limp preflop, and simply play the odds after the flop. If you are reasonably sure you get the low half then you can pump the river, although the times that you get quartered you will get some flaming from your fellow quarteree.

(I always take note when someone flames someone else for jamming the low, since that is a clear indication that he doesn't have a particularly good understanding of the game...)
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Postby JDLush » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:32 am

Stone, I'll concur with everything that Ojingo said, although I most likely will not raise the first hand preflop unless I am in LP and have a bunch of limpers already (that I know won't fold to a raise after they have limped). I'd rather see the flop multiway with most A23x hands, especially when x is a 6. I think that is possibly the most under-rated O8 hand out there and gets you more 3/4 pots than almost anything.

When you hit 2 to a low with a gutshot you have to do what you did and jam it. What you're hoping for (besides the 5 of course) is an A or 2 to hit the turn and counterfeit someone that played a bare a2. You got the 5, so that worked out pretty well anyway. You'll probably brick out after that flop around 20% of the time (can any odds guys confirm this?), but the times you won't brick out will make up for it.
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Postby GooperMC » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:51 am

Hand 1
Pre-flop
To reiterate what JD said, this is a classic pulling hand and therefore shouldn't be raising first in unless you are sure you are going to get callers (which you did). The worst thing that could happen with this hand would be to raise and everyone behind you fold and you end up 3 way. With hands like this you don't want to drive away customers! Don't just raise because you have a good hand, raise in EP to push people out and raise in LP to grow a pot.

Flop, Turn, River
Get as much money in however you can

Hand 2
Pre-flop
AA2s is a strange hand because it plays well in both a large multiway pot and HU. I generally play it like it is a pushing hand to try and promote AA to be the best high, but playing it like a pulling hand is OK too.

Flop
I bet here because I want to promote my AA to the best high by pushing out baby flush draws and hands that can turn into garbage 2 pair.

Turn
Good time to slow down

River
I would raise that river even with a naked A2. With 4 people in the pot and the high donk factor at the .5/1 games I have found that raising with only the nut low last to act is +EV.
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