After pushing the value of straights in this game, I just came up with an idea for "measuring" certain kinds of wrappy-type hands and started off carrying it out partially for a full wrap--namely 5678.

I'm planning on using these middle ones to begin with, since they have full extension. What one has to bear in mind in comparing them to bigger ones is that, while the big ones sometimes don't have full extention, as you get up close to the A, you're more often drawing to the nuts. For example, on 9TJQ, you don't have to worry about being overstraighted if you make your straight on a board of AKQ. With 5678, "making your hand" on a board of 89T is a mixed blessing.

What my real intention is is to find out how the various kinds of holes in your starting hand effect the probabilities of making straights or straight draws. And I'm only counting making the nut straight or having a 12-outer to the nut straight. For the moment, I'm going to leave out any 8-outers.

So, here's the way I'm trying to "map" this for 5678. First of all, I'm just counting how many boards give you a made top straight. Then, I'm counting how many outs you have to improve on these boards. After that, I'm going to count how many boards give you 12-outers (ignoring suits), but I haven't done that yet.

Here's my "chart" for 5678 on flopping the nut straight (please let me know if I've missed any).

234 / 6 outs to improve (5 or 6)
345 / 6 (outs to improve)
346 / 6
347 / 6
456 / 4 (filling up)
457 / 4
458 / 4
467 / 4
468 / 4
478 / 4
569 / 4
579 / 4
589 / 4
That makes 13 possible boards (if I haven't missed any) where you have a made nut straight.

Interesting is that with this full wrap, it's actually impossible to flop the nut straight without having improvement outs. Moreover, the more you're on the top end of the straight, the better your improvement chances. Toward the bottom end, your filling up chances may also be dubious because you could get overboated, but they're still significant against any straight that ties with you. A mere set shouldn't be in there, but they're in some cases also only defensive outs--like if someone has the same straight together with top set. Then your 2 pair just helps to keep the pot split rather than losing it.

After running the 12-outers on this hand, I'm going to check and see how various kinds of holes influence your chances on these hands.

Just to follow this up a bit: I came up with a lot of hands that give you 11- or 13-outers on a wrap (about 14% of all flops on a lowish one, perhaps more on bigger wraps).

But there actually aren't a whole lot on what I was calling the double-gutters (4679 etc.). Interesting is that on some 58 flops, you get a full 16 outs to the nuts with that hand (not considering flushes), but the boards are such that you can get counterfeited on top quite a bit, so you need to hit pretty specialized flops on these.

If they're playable at all (which I'm now much more skeptical about), I think only the big ones (maybe 8TJK and 9JQA) are worth trying. Even 79TQ is a lot worse in terms of number of boards giving you serious outs. Also, when you have a made nut straight on these hands, you have far fewer freeroll situations than you do on wraps.