The only places I've found games with any regularity are Party and Stars and to a lesser extent at Full Tilt, Ultimate Bet and Absolute.

Kuso, I know it's a very broad question that is difficult to answer in a general sense ... but what kinds of hands should I be entering fourth and fifth street with?

Basically what I am playing are low flush draws (I'll play a flush draw with one high/two low cards, but not two high/one low), low straight draws (even it it's a two-gapper, sometimes even 789 or 689 in late position with few low cards on the board), trips, AAx/AxA, and KKx/KxK if no A on board.

Every now and then I'll play something like 942 if the 9 is hidden or 33A/A33 if the board is favorable.

Are you essentially saying that I need to mix it up with more high hands? More high pairs? Draws?

hhhmmmm... tough to say.

i get pretty good reads on my opponents pretty quickly in the HU/SH games, so i imagine it's different. also, it is actually sometimes possible to get people to fold in these games, so this is VERY different than FR.

anyway, i'll try to answer:

- i'd play bare low draws to a six and maybe a seven (if villains' boards look weak) and there are a lot of people in the pot. these are the hands that can convert for you with out-of-nowhere highs.

- if i hit two pair and whiff on the low, i'd probably play to the river unless there is an insanely scary board out there (e.g., four straight or four flush and action). it's shocking some of the crap that wins high in s/8. there are a lot of promo raise plays that you can make that zee talks about. it's nuanced, but i think it can work even at low levels (e.g., you can get an overpair who might suckout on your made two pair to fold on 6th). zee gives this topic plenty of quality treatment, so i'll leave it to him

- i would say that 942 is pretty much crap whether the 9 is hidden or not since nobody is folding anyway. either you make your hand or you don't. i might see 4th if i can see it for the bring-in and my low outs are mostly live.

- i'd play A33 all day long if i think i can see 4th and 5th relatively cheaply.

- as i mentioned before, i'd play high straight flushes (even with a gap) on third, and i'd try to see 5th even if i whiff on 4th if there are a lot of people in the pot.

- as for high hands, yeah, i'd play more of them. you'll be surprised how often the "great" low draws brick out, often because they're holding each other's outs.


keep in mind that my commentary is based on loose-passive games. i'm not really sure how i'd play in loose-aggressive games, because i've never played in one.

also, i hope that xas will comment on this -- he has much more experience than i. that being said, i imagine that he will be critical of the bare low suggestion and might be critical of the high straight flush draws -- but i think that's because he's biased toward tighter games and/or theory aimed at those games.

FF, i don't know if you've read SSHE, but it's a lot different than some of the other LHE books out there. try to imagine how a SSS8 book would look compared to the current S8 material that is most likely aimed at the bigger games -- lots of things would be different.

that's all i have for now (maybe more after i sleep). i'm open to discussion. i REALLY recommend you read zee's book.

I have played quite a bit of 7 Stub 8B with pretty good success at the lower limits so they can be beaten at a fair clip but there are days that really suck when you keep bricking out after drawing to a good scooping hand and getting whipsawed by multiple raisers but you just got to hang in there. In looser games where 4 or more folks are seeing 4th I will play most 7 lows and hope to catch well and go from there. Nothing wrong with drawing to a one way low hand if there is substantial action going high and with perhaps another shittier low hand than you in there. If I miss and someone else improves a low hand I am pretty much done with it. Those 689 and 789 hands you are coming in with should be thrown away in my opinion on 3rd. Also playing 3 to a flush with 1 card higher than an 8 is usually not worth playing as well if there is any interest in a low being shown by another player. High straight draws, high flush draws and pairs (even Kings) should be mucked the VAST majority of the time.

As with most split games the key is in playing hands with scoop potential most of the time. Be aware of the other low cards showing as they are very inportant at times to deciding on when to continue with your low (the more that are duplicating your cards the better as you are more likely to hit a good low card when you hit).

Hope that helps some. O8B and Stud 8B are without a doubt the most frustrating games for me when I am losing and you keep looking at 87 lows taking down half the pot time after time after time while you brick out with 2345 suited. But if you are playing well it is hard to keep a good h/l player down for long. I agree with Kuso about getting Ray Zee's book.