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Justification or Good call

Postby starstealer » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:13 am

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Postby starstealer » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:31 am

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"Like a baby treats a diaper."
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Postby JDLush » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:12 am

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Postby piersmajestyk » Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:47 am

I don't particularly like the call here because of the kind of opponent you are up against and also there is no guarantee for action behind you, even the BB won't call if he wakes up with real trash. I also think your figures are off for regarding making a 50.00+ pot and winning 92.00 from those two instances. A good portion of those pots would also include your input so in order to actualize a real 50.00 profit those are going to have to be some huge pots. Also what about the times you hit your set and still lose.

Against some opponents I might three bet them in this spot to get it heads up but against a tough, solid player I would lean more towards folding. Without knowing for sure that more folks are coming along for the ride for a volume pot I think a fold is probably best. Just my opinion though.
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Postby starstealer » Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:02 am

Well, piers - I'd have to disagree about the BB not waking up if he has real trash - he called the raise with 94o... but that's beside the point...

I don't actually need to realize a $50 profit in order to make this call though - that's just what I expect is a minimum for the pot to become. In order for it to be +EV (assuming I win every time I make my set), I'd only need the portion of the pot that I don't contribute to be 7.5* my initial call right? Or in this case, $30. If that's the case, with an expected $9 preflop, and only one caller from flop to the river (the BB), the minimum for this portion of the pot is $9+$2+$4+$4 ($19). Given what I know of my friend, he will push it on the flop most of the time, so that's an extra $2 from him - and it would also give me a raise possibility - so an extra $2 from the BB. $23.

Of course, the more I do the math here, the more and more marginal it looks - and maybe I am wrong and that it is -EV.

I guess there might be a misunderstanding on my part about implied odds as well. For me, I will make my set 1 out of 8.5 times. So, for a $4 investment, I need the resultant pot to be 7.5 times my investment to make it a break even play. Originally, I thought that the resultant pot could include later investments (which is plainly wrong). However, the part I'm not sure about is do I include later investments as part of the 7.5 multiplier situation. Or to be more succinct:

$4 investment requires ending pot minus additional investments of $30
$4 investment requires ending pot of 7.5 * (4+2+4+4) or $95
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Postby briachek » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:36 pm

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Postby Tiburon » Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:13 am

Star---

The call is definitely reasonable, and I have to agree with JDLush--set it or forget it. See the flop--if it's a monster for you, stick around. If not, you bail out. With middle pairs, the idea is to see as many flops as you can CHEAPLY, and act accordingly from there.

As you all will figure out quickly, I'm a big fan of SSHE. Miller says basically what piers mentioned--fold unless you think others will call behind you. With a fairly tight player open raising in EP, you're usually in trouble with 88. That being said, nothing tilts a player more than his AK v. your 88 with a flop of A-K-8...
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