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Those "other four" hands early on - Live Poker Forums

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Those "other four" hands early on

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Those "other four" hands early on

Postby oflaugherty » Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:05 am

What do y'all do in the early rounds with TT AQs AJs and KQs?

My strategy is to fold if there is a raise ahead of me, bet 4BB if I am first into the pot.

But... when there are limpers ahead of me... now what?

Just played a classic hand of this type. I will post it shortly...
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Postby oflaugherty » Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:50 am

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP2 (t335)
Hero (t625)
CO (t400)
Button (t620)
SB (t1875)
BB (t1785)
UTG (t605)
UTG+1 (t1225)
MP1 (t530)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with [Qc], [Ac].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t30, 2 folds, Hero raises to t60, CO calls [t400] , 2 folds, BB calls t370, UTG+1 folds, Hero folds.

Flop: (t505) [5c], [7d], [6h] (2 players)

Turn: (t505) [5h] (2 players)

River: (t505) [7c] (2 players)

Final Pot: t505

Results in white below:
BB has 8d 6d (two pair, sevens and sixes).
CO has Ah 9c (two pair, sevens and fives).
Outcome: BB wins t505.


Yes, maybe I should have raised to 3BB instead of just 2 but I wasn't thinking.
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Postby Hofstra » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:14 pm

With TT i might call a raise if it is only a small percentage of my stack and if there are not many people to act behind me. First in in EP, I usually limp. If the action goes crazy I can get away from it cheaply. In LP I will raise first in. If there are limpers I might raise if that buys me the button and I can limit the field to one opponent. If I don't think that happens I limp and hope to hit a good flop. (Basically I treat TT like a smaller pp in the early stages.)

With AQ more or less the same. If the table is tight and I think I can get it heads up I might raise a few limpers. At least that helps you to define their hands a bit better. But if there are a lot of limpers or if I don't think they'll fold I just limp and hope for a strong flop.

AJ and KQ I only limp in if my odds are really good and if I'm pretty sure there will be no raises behind me. On a tight table I might raise one limper if I'm on the button but I really don't like investing chips that early when you don't have a read on your opponents yet and when there is hardly any blind money to win.

Note that if you limp with AQ (or AJ) you have to be really careful if the flop comes something like AT7, because you might be up against top two pair. On such a flop I'll put in one potsized bet or one raise if someone makes a weak-looking bet, but not invest more. You are really looking for a Q-rag-rag flop, and even then you should be on guard.

Your hand illustrates the problem: in the early stages play can be very erratic. In this hand I would either limp in (and fold to the huge raise) or make a bigger raise myself (at least 4bb). With quite a few people left to act I would be inclined to just call, unless the table has been very passive.

Pieter
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Postby bobby » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:30 pm

Pretty much agree with Pieter here, especially concerning % of stack size...I would suggest NEVER a 2 BB raise, no matter what you have...I suppose there could be a creative use for it somewhere down the line, but at the levels most of us play, it is a bad move...An early read of your table can help you a bit, but if it's real early, I usually limp quite a bit with all the hands you have mentioned. I want to see flops and get a chance to out play 'em if I flop big...I don't worry too much if I lose 2 or 300 early, I usually look a bit loose, and this can pay dividends later...I even limp with AK about 50% of the time...I guess the idea is to give yourself a chance to out play them, so survival is key, and ALOT easier if you get a few chips early on...I know it's a fine line...
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Postby MVPSPORTS » Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:39 pm

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Postby flafishy » Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:49 pm

Pretty much what MVP says. I'll limp in with just about any PP early but will fold to any further action or if the flop doesn't hit me. I'll do the same with a high connector -- KQ, QJ, sometimes even JT, if I'm in middle or late position and a couple of limpers ahead of me give me pot odds to see a flop.

The AQ and the AJ, I'll raise with 'em from CO or the button if everyone has folded ahead of me, which rarely happens in the first level or two. I'll go ahead and see a flop, though, if three or four people have limped ahead of me. In that situation, it's all about the pot odds.
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