I know you guys play a hell of a lot more tourneys than I do... I'm trying to start... But I have a question that comes up pretty often...

I play supertight for the 1st half of the tourney, and usually double up and get a lot of chips... I'm Big Stack (or close to it) in a 10-man w/ 4-5 people left...

I know that the conventional wisdom is to push people around and steal blinds like crazy, but when I get into LAG mode, it seems like I get called, and everytime I lose and lose my big advantage...

Example... I'm playing the $30 9-man on Pokerstars... down to 4... I'm in the chip lead w/ about 5000 chips... some bozo w/ 1500 goes allin PF, I call (like I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to) w/ KQ, he flips A8 and doubles up when nothing hits... Now I'm down to 3500 and fighting instead of coasting... a couple hands later, another 1500 pushes, I call in LP w/ A10... he has a pair of 5s, and I lose... Now I have 2000 and I'm the short stack, and ofcourse, get busted out on the bubble...

Wouldn't an alternate strategy just be to just sit back and wait for one of them to knock each other out, and then really push when I'm ITM???

I'm not sure if this is a good strategy (like I said, I'm pretty new to SNG), but I'm just freakin tired of busting out on the bubble after being the chipleader...

MVP

I used to be a believer in that old saw that it was the chip leader's responsibility to knock out the short stacks and should call those all-in bets. But I too have had the experience of losing my chip stack to these situations and gave up that idea.

I know there are others who play more aggressively than I do - but I am a proponent of "get ITM first". I want to get paid for my time.

When it comes to calling the short stacks I am very patient and very careful NOT to double them up. In the two situtations that you described the opponent was betting way too much to risk that call with the hands you played. In the first hand you are, at best a 54/45 dog to the standard short stack/all-in hands. That means you are putting up 30% of your stack as an underdog. I don't like that situation at all.

In the second hand you are only ahead of A9 or less and playing for over 40% of your stack. You might be ahead but most likely you are playing for almost half your stack as another underdog.

If you want to take those risks after you are ITM then go for it - but not until then.

BTW, I would consider the "standard" all-in hands with those stacks to be any PP, AX suited, and A8o or better.

Thats my strategy on the bubble anyway - let's hear from others.

First off, I agree with Sunbob about your first all in call. You have to expect they have Ax or a PP which puts you behind right there. I just fold. Its a much different to push all in than to call an all in.

The AT hand is a bit more callable. It really depends on your read on your opponent. This is why I only play one SNG at a time because I need to know who I'm going against. Unless you see him pushing constantly or seen him show down questionable hands in similar situations, I lean towards folding until I get in the money. Just because you are the chip leader, it doesn't mean you have to bust them. If its folded to you and you raise to 700 or so and someone goes all in for 1500, then you call because you have odds. Calling 1500 cold takes a better hand for me.

MVP, what I meant by saying I would play A8o is, I would go all-in from a short stack if I was the first in the pot. I don't want to call an all-in with that weak of a hand. I generally won't call with anything less than I would have earlier in the trny.

I think fishy is right . . ."If you have something like a 6:1 chip lead and they're really getting pressured by the blinds, then you should call hands like that. But not when you're in a situation where they would be right back in the game with you if they took you for a big pot." I'm actually a little bit tighter than that on the bubble and prefer it to be 1/8th or 1/10th of my stack. I can't tell you how many times I have doubled someone up when they were down to their last chips - only to have them come back and knock me out.

There is a big difference between being the aggressor and being the caller. Pound those short stacks every chance you get. Don't let them keep their blinds but don't double them up.

Dodge, weave, pound and steal until you get ITM - then you can go for the gold. I may not win as many SnGs as I could or should, but my ITM is over 50% so far this year. That means I am making money. Actually the SnGs are the only place I am making money - my ring game sux right now.

Bob... I'm with you with the sucky ring game... that's why I'm trying out SNGs... at least I can lose money slower that way... I've tried playing tighter ONB today... 4 tourneys... 1 second, 1 third, 2 fourths... Boy, being OTB BLOWS... These numbers really aren't as bad as they seem... one of the 4ths, I had AK, he had pocket 7s... table cards A2JK... wait for it... wait for it... of course the 7...

Do you guys see any difference in quality of play between $30 and $50 SNGs...? I tried the $100s a couple times, but they all play ubertight, and I couldn't get past first base...

I think you guys are absolutely on the wrong track tightening up around the bubble, especially with the chip lead. Every fish and his brother is going to tighten up around the bubble waiting for that low-risk premium hand to play. You say you play ubertight in the early part of the tournament when everyone else is throwing chips all around the table. So why would it be a good idea to also be ubertight when everyone else is being ubertight? Makes no sense.

Around the bubble is when you really need to be in stealing mode because that's when everyone else is going to be afraid to commit any chips to less than a premium hand, and for the most part, they're going to give up their blinds willingly.

Being loose around the bubble does NOT mean just throwing all your chips into the pot at the drop of a hat. You still need to be in control of your chips. But you want to loosen up your starting-hand requirements considerably and challenge people who are afraid of their own shadow and playing scared. Most of the time, your aim is to attack the blinds ferociously and not give them a chance to see a flop if you can help it -- that's all.

You still have to protect yourself. I don't know where you get the idea that it's your duty as the big stack to take out the small stacks at all cost. That's not true at all. Your only real duty is to scarf up those blinds when you can afford to put a few chips at risk and have at least something in your hand that might cover your ass in case someone decides to put up a fight.

MVP, that KQ and a bit of a chips cushion are perfect weapons to challenge a weak opponent or two. Put a 2.5x or 3x raise out there with it if you're first in the pot. If somebody fights back and reraises all-in, well, you have the luxury of deciding whether you have the odds to call him or to just toss it away. Most of the time, you're going to scarf up some short stacks' blinds with that move.

But to feel that you have a duty to call a guy's all-in with that hand is incorrect. He's got a hand he wants to double up with, don't let him. Walk away. You've still got your chip lead, he's still on the short stack, and you have the luxury to be able to wait for the next opportunity to initiate an attack when you've got the upper hand.

Tightening up and playing a waiting game absolutely is not the correct strategy. Everyone else is doing that, which gives you the leverage to have your way with them.

Fishy, I would like to think that is what I was trying to say - you said it much better. I am careful in making calls but very aggressive when I am the one leading out.

The main point here is to give up the idea that it is the big stacks "duty" to call those short stack all-ins and knock out the short stacks. I know that idea is out there. When I first started I used to think that was my job. I learned that it isn't a good strategy for me and dropped it.

After that long-winded post, I think I can boil it down to this. Steal those blinds, and steal them frequently, around the bubble. You're not going to be challenged very often, and when you are challenged, you can back off immediately.

A strategy I do employ in the early stages of the tournament is to resist the temptation to take advantage of obvious blind-stealing situations. When the blinds are 15/30, I'm in the button and the betting is folded around to me, I'll still fold anything short of a premium hand. I'll even fold the small blind a lot of times to try to get a reputation as a wuss.

The blinds at that point really aren't worth fighting over, and by not attacking them now, I'm not putting people on the defensive -- lulling them into a false sense of security, if you will. That way, when I start attacking those 75/150 and 100/200 blinds, I catch them off guard and they'll believe that I must have a good hand because I haven't gotten a reputation.

Shifting gears: Re: the standard strategy of playing tight early, which almost every expert recommends. Just read a page in Harrington's book in which he gives a very good reason for playing a little looser sometimes in the early stages.

Suppose you're in a STT with Gus, Phil, Doyle, Howard, Layne, Larry, Moe and Curly. Standard strategy is to be ubertight early and let the idiots sort things out among themselves. So Larry, Moe and Curly are there throwing their chips around the table willy-nilly, and you're being ubertight while the others are scarfing up Larry, Moe and Curly's chips. Then it comes time to start loosening up and getting aggressive, and now you're trying to extract Larry, Moe and Curly's chips frm Gus, Phil, Doyle, Howard and Layne. What's wrong with that scenario?

It's funny you bring that up, cause I just read that chapter in his book... I will still play aggressive early w/ premium hands, and in a live tourney, where I can see everyone, I'll loosen up a little, but I just don't know how well that holds up in a online SNG... He even says several times that people online are much more loose, and aren't scared away as much by a big bet as they are live... The last thing I want is a suckout early, when I should have been minding my own damned business...

I feel like I have enough faith in my midlevel game online that I don't need to chase early unless I know I have something... Plus, the times that I do get a big chiplead REAL early, I tend to get into "fancy play syndrome"... I think I play a little better when some of the pressure is on...