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Playing more than your cards

Postby LilOleMe? » Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:06 am


As somewhat decent players, we are expected to know how to read our opponents. I've sat through forum after forum and watch players throw their money away. All because they say they play a TAG game, and don't realize that Tight/Agressive play isn't always the way to go. So how do you know when to play a TAG game or a LAG game?
Well it's rather easy. You've heard people say that whatever the table is playing you play the opposite? Well this statement has some truth to it.

Let's say your sitting at a 10 seater on UB 10+1. After 3 or 4 hands you notice the whole table is folding. Wow you'd think this was a 100+10 the way this table is playing. In this type of situation you should ALWAYS take more shots at the pots. Even when the blinds are low. More often than not these players are weak/tight post flop as well as preflop. You'll pick up just as many hands on the flop as you will raising preflop. Not taking advantage of players online weaknessess is just as bad as not doing it at a live game. You MUST pay attention to betting patterns online. Being that there are NO facial expressions in the online poker community, learning to read betting patterns is your only form of "Read" on an online opponent. Online players pick up habits when they play. Always betting a certain amount with a certain hand, or only raising with certain things. There are many more things you should be paying attention to, rather than your own cards.

Honestly there is some debate on how to play a LAG table. I personally tend to tighten up. While you WILL have more odds to call with drawing hands, these hands should only be played with appropiate odds and appropiate position. I prefer a group of weak/tight players over a LAG group. Much easier when you're the bully.

Anyone else have any thoughts on reading online players and taking advantage of the situation?

-Me
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Postby Telemachus » Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:43 am

An interesting post, not least because it inverts, to a degree, the conventional theory propounded here and elsewhere, of how to make money at the low level sit and gos.

Personally, and my experience in SnGs is restricted to Party 5 and 10s and UB 5 and 10s, I do not believe that the opponents at this level have the sophistication to make the 'right' folds if you get loose and aggressive early, regardless of how tight they appear. This significantly reduces the value that you would get against tighter fields from stealing blinds etc. Even if the table looks and acts tighter than normal, I still think you are going to get calls from marginal hands, leaving you in the undesirable situation of not knowing where you are on the flop. Much of the value of playing loose aggressive, in my view, is winning pots when you are behind and getting extra value when you do make a hand. Neither of these attributes work at this level, basically because the opposition is to stupid not to call when he shouldn't, and not observant enough for you top get proper value later on your loose agg image.

A specific example. You are at the 2nd level of a Party 10 SnG. Blinds 15 and 30. In middle position you are dealt A 10. You have noticed that the table is pretty tight. One limper to you.

You raise to 135.

He calls.

The flop comes A 6 4.

He checks to you. You bet the pot. He goes all in.

What do you do? My problem with making these looser raises is that players at this level will call your pre flop raise with Ax, so he could easily have made two pair, and the only way you will find out is calling for all your chips. He could even just have you outkicked, or have nothing better than a middle pair he got too attached to. In my mind, this is not a winning strategy at these levels, precisely because there is so much craziness. That is why you must wait for hands that you 'know' are ahead in the early stages. I agree that you should studiously observe betting patterns etc- but the time to use that information is later in the game.

To conclude, I agree with the general logic that you should play the opposite of the table you are at. I do not think, however, that this loose aggressive strategy at tight tables will work long term at small SnGs.
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Postby Nashvegas » Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:35 am

I'll tell you a few things about these SNGs:

(1) At the $10 level, you should never find yourself at a tight table. This is because I can guarentee that, at Party Poker, you will not get stuck at a tight table early in an SNG. Therefore, if you are playing at UB or somewhere and you are sometimes at tight tables, you should instead play at Party if you are interested in maximizing profits.

(2) You can make a killing at $10 SNGs if you simply play relatively tight and uber-aggressive. These players won't fold mediocre/good hands, even if you are screaming "I HAVE THE NUTS". If you get a free flop from the BB with Axs and flop the nut flush, make a big bet and you will surely be called. However, this means that when you make that big semibluff holding only the Ace of the suit later on with the same board, you'll get called. It doesn't pay to be loose at this low level.

Given #1 and #2, it follows that at best trying this LAG strategy will very marginally increase your edge at tables that you will encounter once in a blue moon. Playing loose will SURELY increase your variance in SNGs, thus increasing your bankroll requirements and decreasing the (average) stakes you will play at if you have a limited bankroll. It's also likely that if you move from playing "easy poker" TAG to a harder to master LAG style, EVEN IF that's profitable long run, you will have expensive lessons in the transition.

I HIGHLY recommend playing very tight at Party $10+1s, and I also highly recommend not playing at tight tables when you have the opportunity to play at party instead.
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