BAH doooood. I didn't lose the prop bet, THAT WAS THE PROP BET. Tell me that if you were inna bar on new years and there were 2 chicks tellin you that if u play tounge hockey with this dood that they will take you home and ravish you everywhich way and oneofem is on holiday from the netherlands so you KNOW that she aint lyin to you. . . bah doood, you'd tounge your buddy too.

As for that old queen, i told you that I got outta that without givin up the ole browneye, so fuck off.

Well poofter, the way i remember the story is that you made a totally unwinnable propbet with the biggest whore in town, the bet being who could have sex with the most people before the end of the semester or something, where you came in with a respactable zero, and she had like 93...and the bet was if you won you coudl have a 3some wither and a freind of hers and if u lost u hadda toungue a dood....so as my argument goes, you madea bet you knew u couldnt win, which u knew would result in you tougnuin a dood, which strongly implies that you sir, are a poofter...thats how i remember it therefore thats what happened obv...

Interesting hand.
I agree with betting flop. I don't understand why our plan woud ever be to CR button when we have an OESD which is pretty concealed draw (more so than a flush draw that is) and our hand has no showdown value as is. That just makes no sense to me. You want to keep players in, the best way to do that is lead flop or check/call.

As played, you need to fold. You have only 6 clean outs and there are a zillion redraws on the river and you are OOP. If we somehow had position and could better control how many bets we have to put in on the turn I would stick around.

The "overcard out theory" is really not enough to swing this at all. Even if you get running two pair anyone with a K beat you. That theory is maybe 0.25 outs. You need a straight or maybe running trips to win this and have to possibly fade any flush card.

hrm... so it appears this was closer than i thought, although i stick with call being the best option.

What I dont get is, whats so great about betting flop?

erm...also, i wouldnt call an OESD with a JQ a 'well concealed' hand-- when that 8 or that K comes off, especially in a big multiway mess of a pot like this, the JQ straight sorta jumps right out at ya, id say. Hence, i dont even like the implied odds of this hand very much. I think if i have a set here and the JQ straight comes in and theres a raise on the turn, im going into check/call mode unless i boat up...true story, call me weak tite if ya want, but in a live game with that many players to the flop, im not RRing a turn raise when the JQ straight gets there, and i think alot of live game players would play it the same...the more i look at this the more of a fold i think it is...

I gotta disagree with ya here dood-- i mean, its not so much a matter of 'ya any two cards can make a straight' or 'the board looks straight-ish, ill not go crazy with my set/2pr'...its a more a matter of the particular hand that you have here, and 'how plausible is it or likely is it thatta mizors got this exact hand' ... JQ is like the classic limp hand/multiway hand, its almost as obvious as TJ or like AK in a raised pot when the T comes on the JQ board and the PFR raises and here u are with JQ, are you reraising him like u would if the board was like JQ37? Doubtful...tho i guess this example is slightly off cause more PFR shit beats you than just AK-- point is tho, the JQ straight in a big limped/multiway pot is never concealed, because the cards are so common/playable, as opposed to like the 68 or the 67 needed to make a straight on the boards you mentioned. no one with top set on that BS board beleives ur playin those baby cards, and figure maybe your oversetted, or ur overplaying an OP, or some shit....But when it to big connected broadway cards, people are way more likely to put ya onnem... This especially applies in loose/weakish live games, where people tend to only call the expensive streets with a non nut hand...If this was an online game, my opinion may very well be different...