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Weakness

Postby Kurab » Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:56 pm

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Postby TexasKowboy » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:28 pm

I play tight/agressive until the blinds are 50/100. Then depending on my stack size I loosen up. If I have a big or above average stack I stay tight aggressive. I don't want to put chips back in the SnG.

Here is how I bet most of the time. I limp until the blinds are under 50/100. 2 or 3 X the BB raise is not going to push many hands out. So if I miss and want to get out with it only costing me the BB. It's hard to win alot in the early stages of a SnG but it is easy to lose a lot.

Once the blinds reach the 50/100 level they are now worth stealing and by not raising a lot before now you will get more credit for your raise. I like to bet 2 1/2 times the BB. If I can't do that then it is not worth entering the pot. The reason for the 2 1/2 X the BB is a lot of player will call the 2 X the BB but fold to anything bigger then that.

Now betting after the flop. If I am going to stay in the hand and the pot has not been raised before the betting gets to me I am going to bet the pot. This is the same if the blinds are 10/20 or 100/200. (Bigger then 200 we will address in a minute). This is the same bet you want to make if your bluffing at the pot or you have a monster. How many times have you seen small bet = big hand and big bet = small hand or everytime the guy has a hand he bets big but when he is bluffing he only bets 2 X the BB. Using the betting style I am decribing you are not playing many hands and only playing middle PP 10, J suited or better. The other thing you never want to do is go all in unless you have the nuts at the time you go all in. Pre-flop the only nut hand is AA. So when would you go all in pre-flop? When you have AA. This means if you raises 2 1/2 times the BB with KK and someone has you cover and puts you all in if you call then you must fold if you want to reach your goal. NOTICE: I said they bet so big they have you covered! This means if you have KK and have them covered you can call. If you lose to Ax you are still in the game. Use some common sense. If you only have them covered by 15 then you don't want to call.

Once the blinds reach 200+. By now you have a good read on everyone left in the SnG. You have to play each person differently. Most hands are going to be heads up. I have found that if you bet about 20% of whatever there stack is they will not call you unless they have at least TP. This rule is not always true for the short stack they are going to push all in with any pair. Don't bluff the short stack. You don't want to give him chips to get back into the SnG.

What is your goal? I play $20 to $100 SnG's. My goal is to make the money. Most SnG's last 1 hour. So even at $20+2 I am making $18 an hour finishing 3rd. Finishing 3rd out of 10 players is not that hard if you play tight/aggressive. I am in the money 70% of the time at 2 of the sites I play on. At Party I am only in the money 40% of the time.

Good luck and I hope this helps,
Kowboy

If I ain't sinkin', well I must be swimin' If I ain't dead, I must be livin' Livin' is the thing, that scares me the most And if I ain't sleepin', well I better be fishin' If I ain't anchored I will be driftin' But all and all, I'm doing pretty good, since I hit my third coast!
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Postby sammax71 » Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:35 pm

I think it's very difficult to say how much you should bet in any situation because there can be many different variables. I like to try and do the same thing so that no variances show up. For example if I decide to bet on the flop generally I will bet the pot (hey "bet the pot" now thats a good name for a poker forum). That way nobody can pick up on different amounts that you may bet.

I notice you put losing too much down to "too many all ins". I believe in a S&G, certainly early on, you should be avoiding going all in. Especially if somebody else is putting you all in. I think you need to be careful of hands that will clearly make you a second best hand, eg kj, qj, aj etc Obviously once the blinds have increased to a decent amount (about level 4 on PP), you will find that you will be going all in more if you are on a shortish stack to pick up pots.
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Great Response

Postby Kurab » Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:00 pm

Thanks Texas and Sam - good responses. I like your ideas texas - its a better way to look at it.

And Sam - I am not going all in early in the tourments, this starts to happen arround the 50/100 level when I am short stacked and feel that I need to double up to stay alive - so I am all in in a lot more marginal situations - and as of late - no matter how much I am ahead I have been sucked out on......

But a quick thought about that - what do you think - I wonder if I feel that there are more bad beats because there are many more Head up's all ins in a Sit and Go - so you see the beats much more then you would if your playing in a ring game ....
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Postby TexasKowboy » Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:31 am

Your right about the bad beats. When you are all in your seeing the hand all the way to the river. When your checking calling raising. Once a scare card hits your folding so the bad beat isn't happening as much. That is why the micro ring games you hear of the bad beats more also because the fish are chasing everything to the river.

Good luck and do your best not to go all in as long as your around the average. Remeber the only hand that means anything in a SnG is the last one. There is no set rule on when your short stacked enough to go all in with Ax. But I like to use the 10 X the BB rule unless the blinds are over 100. If the blinds are over 100 try stealing the blinds with a 2 or 3 X the BB raise first. If your called you can go all in after the flop if the other player shows weakness. Players will call and all in with small PP before the flop but they will muck them after the flop if a scare card hits.
Kowboy

If I ain't sinkin', well I must be swimin' If I ain't dead, I must be livin' Livin' is the thing, that scares me the most And if I ain't sleepin', well I better be fishin' If I ain't anchored I will be driftin' But all and all, I'm doing pretty good, since I hit my third coast!
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Postby sammax71 » Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:57 am

I think thats a good point you make TexasKowboy regarding raising 2 or 3 times BB instead of just going all in. In the past I've gone all in pre flop to be called by someone and afterwards I've thought maybe if I had just raised and then gone all in there must've been a good chance they would fold. I suppose for this to work you would actually have to be acting first. That would give you the opportunity to get your chips in the middle before the other player has to act.

Thinking about it from the other way round though, say blinds are 100/200 and I have 1500 chips with 4 or 5 players left and I'm dealt a low pair and someone in front of me raises to 600 I'm likely to push all my chips in the middle there and then. My thinking would be that if I am called then it will more than likely be a race and I would have the fact that they may fold in my favour too. I have found that when it gets to near the money a lot of people seem to become more passive and try to avoid getting knocked out but I believe this is where you want to be getting more aggresive and start accepting the marginal gambles.

It's such a strange game. You could be given the same cards in 3 situations and you'd do 3 different things. I suppose it all comes down to choosing the right option most of the time.
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Postby Telemachus » Fri Dec 24, 2004 6:28 am

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Postby TexasKowboy » Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:03 pm

Great points Telemachus!

I need to remember when I reply to think about the lower buy in SnG's also. In the $50 and the $100 buy in the play is not much tougher then the $20 SnG's the difference is the amount of money a mistake cost you.

When playing a $100 SnG I am going to make the money first. I will make the money 80% of the time if I don't cripple myself. If you go all in with KK or QQ at the bubble a bigger stake is going to call you with Ax. If the sites you play on are like mine then a A hits the board about 75% of the time. So I am happy just doubling my buy in. Of course it is nice adding $400 to your BR but if I play 5 SnG's and only win one 1st all I did was break even minus the rake. If I play 5 SnG's and win 1 place 2 in 1 and place third in one miss the other 2. Now I made $400 for 5 hours work. Again minus the rake.

I knocked myself out of 2 MTT's Monday night both at the bubble One was only $15 but had a $3000 prize pool. That one I was playing aggressive wanting to move up. I went all in with QQ got called by KK and was bounched in 19th. Top 18 make the money. No big deal here unless your in the top 5 and the top 3 is were the money really is.

The second one which I was playing at the same time was a $50 buy in top 5 get paid. I was not getting any cards and was stealing a few blinds only to pay them back. I pushed with JJ with 7 players left. I was one of 2 short stacks. Of course got called by Ax and the ace flopped. Here 5th paid almost $200. I love turning $50 into $200. So I should have slowed down and made the bubble.

In both of these MTT's I was chip leader and one point or the other. As I studied my play later I realized I got to aggressive before the bubble. Some Pro's will tell you this is a good time to pick up chips but it is also a good time to get busted.

I want to make the money first then I like to get aggressive and move up. One thing I hate to do is put chips back into the game once they are in my stack.

Try avoid calling all in's when your covered a few times and see if your ITM% doesn't improve. I have found that once your ITM even if your short stacked it is not that hard to double up and catch up.

I recomend this play if your building a bank roll or playing $50+ SnG's In the lower limit SnG's were play is weaker I even find myself loosening up.
Kowboy

If I ain't sinkin', well I must be swimin' If I ain't dead, I must be livin' Livin' is the thing, that scares me the most And if I ain't sleepin', well I better be fishin' If I ain't anchored I will be driftin' But all and all, I'm doing pretty good, since I hit my third coast!
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