I want to invest in your poker Hedge fund.
joke appart, I'm in this industry for several years now and always tried to figure out how to do that, and I think you made it
congratulations

edit : just look back in the pages and saw you stopped this project,
I know what a long term investment means and in this type of business if you want good returns, it often means high volatility<> in order to sustain that you should be prepared to invest for a long period of time>>>

Now that the staking deal is over, I think the stakers do deserve an explanation as to some of the occurances that happened this past month because frankly, it is difficult in my opinion for some of these events to occur.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, but it seemed like whenever our money was on the line, you took either the worst beat in the world, or ran into set vs. set, etc etc.

A) You claimed to have had set vs. set happen to you 5 times in three days. Possible? Yes. But when you're playing 2-4 hours sessions per day, I'm sorry but this just doesn't add up.

B) You tell us that you made I don't know, $5000 at 2/4 6-max? You made it a point always to mention that this wasn't the stakers money.

C) When the stake deal was off, you went on and made about $3000-$6000, somewhere in that range. Just sounds a tad fishy that whenever our money wasn't on the line, you always did well, but whenever ours was up you took bad beats and had brutal brutal luck.


Conclusion: For every $500 the stakers put up, we made a "cool" profit of $5. Ice, I've known you and Kenny here the longest. I'm not necessarily trying to claim that you cheated us, but how about you prove to us that this stuff actually happened?

I forgot to ask this:

Why in Gods name would I stop the deal after 1 week and start sending everyones money back to them if I wanted to rip people off? I went to all the trouble to get the whole thing started and then after 1 week I call it off? I couldve "ripped poeple off" for several months if thats what I wanted to do.

Why would I turn down 1000s of dollars from people if I wanted to rip people off?

Why would I even tell you about the money I won when the deal was off for those few days if I was being less than honest about anything?

That's a pretty inconsistent and stupid accusation, Suhleafs. It's also pretty clear that it is an accusation. As Iceman himself pointed out, if he wated to rip people off he went about it in the worst possible way. Since he seems to be a pretty smart guy, and a detective nonetheless, I think that if he wanted to rip someone off he'd do it a lot better.

Also, the mere fact that he TOLD US that he went on a hot streak for the days the deal was off should be evidence that it's not "fishy". I mean... why say that? If he really was winning all along and didn't want to share, why not jut say he broke even those days... or better yet, say he lost! If he had said "Wow, you guys are lucky the deal was off, I dropped 4 buyins in that period" you'd have been happy as a pig in shit now. Just look at what has happened and if you still want an "explanation" then you don't deserve one.

Also, what are you upset about? You didn't lose any money. In fact, you got 1% interest on your money in a month. Even if there was some really strange and weird conspiracy going on, so the fuck what? You just gave some stranger on the internet $500, was promised or guaranteed nothing, and got $505 back... and now you're whining and acting like an ass?

Ok, anyone could have predicted the knives are out for me. I made a rather bold statement and clearly a few people don't agree with me. I happen to be in correspondance with people that have backed me on my viewpoint of the situation. They know who they are and what the entire situation is. I'm not here to name any names, but if they wish to speak up on this matter, then I'm not discouraging them.

I'm not trying to suggest that you would take our money and run, there would be smarter ways to do that. But you also know that if anybody accused you of any wrongdoing, then we couldn't prove it either. The way the arrangement was made could have given you every opportunity and I do mean COULD HAVE, given you an opportunity to embellish your results.

Look, I know I'm going on a limb, but it does seem just a tad on the suspicious side that you would drop a bit of the stake money, end the deal, with your own money you win a lot, then with our money, sh*t hits the fan.

By my calculations, with your win rate you'd ought to have a bankroll of at least 60 grand and bottom line you shouldn't have needed our money. You were definitely more than willing to talk about the hands that you lost than the ones you did win, which you wanted to plant the idea in our minds that the stake is down.

Did you lie about those losses? I doubt it, I really do, but with the way things were set up, you could have basically told us anything and there is NO WAY to prove that you were lying to us. Even if you did send hand histories, those can easily be changed around, dates, hands, etc etc.

I still don't understand why you posted your results publically for everyone to see. This was a deal made between you and the stakers, and in my estimation, only the stakers really need to know what your wins and losses were. Stoneburg, don't even try to talk about and justify how we made a whopping 1% interest on our money. The fact is, he could have not been telling us about money he won and not told us a thing about it, there was just no way to know. So I profited a whole five dollars, that money means shhit to me.

In the future, if you do wish to run a stakers deal, then I really do suggest you keep it more confidential than this was. Look, if you think this is too bothersome for you to take, I will walk away. I will never post on your forum again and from this point on, I won't exist anymore. Maybe I'm really taking things too far, but there were certain parts of the arrangement which I thought could have been done better. You know for a fact Ice that I gave you my FULL support when you wanted to end the stake deal the first time. You remember how upset I got when people started complaining for you to put it back on again, so please don't think I have some sort of personal vendetta against you.

Heres the bottom line. Ask yourself this question. Why, would I come up with this elaborate scheme to take peoples money, risk my (internet) reputation which ive spent 3 years building, spend all my extra time posting daily results and thoughts....BUT THEN NOT TAKE ANYONES MONEY?

It doesnt make any sense. What did I get out of this whole thing other than a month long headache? I must be the worst con man in history because I pulled off this elaborate con and got no money from it.

If I really made a bunch of money during the staking period but embellished my results so I wouldnt have to pay the stakers any money...why would i even start the deal? I couldve just played with my own money and not had to worry about any of this.

As it stands, I feel a little embarressed that I was only able to break even over 3 weeks or so at $5/$10 (bad luck or not). Use a little common sense. Your accusations just dont make any sense.

With the accusations that have been flying in this post I thought this might be a good time for me to do what I should have done earlier and that is to just thank Iceman for all that I have learned from him over the last year or so.
I have followed him since his days on UPF and have slowly moved up using his advice. His advice on stealing small pots has probably been worth several house payments for me. I am I high school teacher who now makes at least $1000 a month extra mainly due to the Iceman and the others on this forum from whom I have learned so much. My family had a wonderful ski trip in Colorado last spring that never would have happened without BTP. I truely am very greatful.
Thanks again,
Kowskie