Drew--

A couple questions--what is your experience level? How long have you been playing? What limits? Where?

It's very difficult. My problem place is Party/Empire. I'm a very consistent winner playing LHE, but I can't seem to win against the donkeys at Party. Similar to your problem. I tried loosening up, I tried tightening up, nothing worked. It will happen. You just have to keep plugging away and rise above it.

DREW, WHAT'S UP! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Welcome to the forum.
I have 2 words for you:

Read This- forum/viewtopic.php?t=1381

Well, like tibby said, welcome to the forums.

Also, as tibby said, yeah. Caps lock is annoying.

In any case, the way to beat a table like that is to do what you did when you played suited connectors and drawing hands and stuff like that.

When every pot is huge and multiway, as they tend to get at the lower limits, then you are getting odds to play your 67s, K7s, A3s, 810s, all your micro pocket pairs, and all that stuff. you cannot beat a table like the one you were at by playing the top 10 hands, because the value of the top 10 hands goes WAY down in big multiway pots. My guess is that pocket JJ would lose about 7/8 times at a table like that, if it didnt flop a set.

You were probably just running bad and the deck wasw missing you, so you didnt get anything out of it- however, if you make just a couple of these hands, you will make back everything you put into the previous pots and more, because of all the action you will be getting.

Everyone feels a little shaken after they getup from a total fishpond down two racks. But, it happens. Its the damn poker gods, ya know?

Again, welcome to the forums.

Hey thanks guys for all the welcome.

After my trip to vegas i just needed to vent out my frustration of how my night went on that table and didnt know where to turn.

i remember sitting down and after seeing only 4 hands i told my wife i was not leaving this table. i had lost a few hundred playing blackjack the night before and i thought this table was gods way of helping my break even for the trip. almost 10 hours later i left after my aces got cracked by a raising 3/3. i lost 37 dollars in 10 hours and never was up more than 150.

ive seen river chasers on line and i have seen bad beats but never so many by so many different players on the same table. all were calling stations and you could not scare anyone out no matter what hit the board, if they hit big, middle, or small on the board they would call all the way. and the sad thing was i couldnt do anything about it. i wonder if it was the cards or me?

I seriously doubt the authenticity of that Negreanu story. You give far too much credit on the skill element of poker. Luck plays a huge role. If luck didn't play a huge role, the standard winrate wouldn't be 2BB/100, it'd be something FAR above that. 2BB/100 accepts that there will be a lot of variance along the way.

About the top ten hands not doing well at a table like that... that is simply false. It is an error to believe 67s performs better than AQ or TT in a multiway pot. The reason you want to play suited connectors in multiway pots rather than heads-up is not because it fares better in these bigger pots, but because now you have the odds for making calling with suited connectors a profitable play in the long run.

Out of the three I mentioned, TT fares best against these tables

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 25.2978 % 24.86% 00.43% { TdTh }
Hand 2: 12.4511 % 11.59% 00.86% { random }
Hand 3: 12.4613 % 11.59% 00.87% { random }
Hand 4: 12.4116 % 11.53% 00.88% { random }
Hand 5: 12.4407 % 11.57% 00.87% { random }
Hand 6: 12.4478 % 11.57% 00.87% { random }
Hand 7: 12.4896 % 11.61% 00.87% { random }

AQo comes in a close second.

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 22.5249 % 21.48% 01.04% { AcQd }
Hand 2: 12.7680 % 11.78% 00.99% { random }
Hand 3: 12.8245 % 11.80% 01.02% { random }
Hand 4: 13.0876 % 12.05% 01.04% { random }
Hand 5: 12.9058 % 11.88% 01.03% { random }
Hand 6: 12.9862 % 11.97% 01.01% { random }
Hand 7: 12.9031 % 11.88% 01.02% { random }

And 67s is WAY down there! It barely is better than the trash they're playing!

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 15.9500 % 14.87% 01.10% { 7c6c }
Hand 2: 14.0041 % 12.90% 01.12% { random }
Hand 3: 13.9979 % 12.90% 01.12% { random }
Hand 4: 13.9837 % 12.88% 01.12% { random }
Hand 5: 14.0372 % 12.93% 01.12% { random }
Hand 6: 14.0010 % 12.89% 01.13% { random }
Hand 7: 14.0261 % 12.91% 01.13% { random }

Tib, I remember reading that story too on his site but I thought it was a NL game that he did that in. Not that it really matters much, thats not really the point of the story but... I do agree with your last post, especially the last paragraph. If the game is gonna be loose passive then it would be wise to loosen up the starting hand selection to include more draw hands. Not that the draw hands are going to out preform the premium hands entirely in this game but if the proper circumstances are present to play them, then they should be played until the game dictates differently.

I would be interested to hear piers take on all this as well. Hopefully he will get involved in this thread as I have learned alot from him I'm sure he will have some excellent input.