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Redraws Revisted.

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Redraws Revisted.

Postby briachek » Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:59 pm

Remember, when you flop a big hand, like the nut straight, always play cautiously. However, if you have a redraw, feel free to push it knowing that your average player (at 25 at least) doesn't care about redraws. They have the nuts now and are willing to risk it all while you are freerolling. Some examples:

Hand 1

***** Hand History for Game 2808676913 *****
0/0 Omaha Game Table (PL) - Sat Oct 01 19:47:38 EDT 2005
Table Table 37517 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: ankartoft ( $31.80)
Seat 2: Tarantino77 ( $24.75)
Seat 3: IainMBanks ( $27.70)
Seat 4: mystentor ( $22.25)
Seat 7: Taylor40 ( $27.95)
Seat 8: mr_pekk ( $24.65)
Seat 9: Jdupont111 ( $37.15)
Seat 10: briachek4 ( $37.40)
Jdupont111 posts small blind (0.10)
briachek4 posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to briachek4 [ 9d, 5c, Jd, 8c ]
Tarantino77 folds.
IainMBanks folds.
mystentor calls (0.25)
Taylor40 folds.
mr_pekk folds.
Jdupont111 calls (0.15)
briachek4 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Tc, 2d, 7d ]
Jdupont111 checks.
briachek4 bets (0.75)
mystentor calls (0.75)
Jdupont111 calls (0.75)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Jc ]
Jdupont111 checks.
briachek4 bets (2.85)
mystentor raises (11.40) to 11.40
Jdupont111 folds.
briachek4 raises (33.55) to 36.40
briachek4 is all-In.
mystentor calls (9.85)
mystentor is all-In.
** Dealing River ** : [ Ac ]
Creating Main Pot with $43.25 with mystentor
Creating Side Pot 1 with $15.15 with briachek4
** Summary **
Main Pot: $43.25 | Side Pot 1: $15.15 | Rake: $2.25
Board: [ Tc 2d 7d Jc Ac ]
mystentor balance $0, lost $22.25 [ 9h 8d Ts 3s ] [ a straight, seven to jack -- Jc,Tc,9h,8d,7d ]
briachek4 balance $58.40, bet $37.40, collected $58.40, net +$21 [ 9d 5c Jd 8c ] [ a flush, ace high -- Ac,Jc,Tc,8c,5c ]

I have both flush draws and the straight against his straight. I have a freeroll with 17 outs to give me the whole pot. I like my chances.

Hand 2

***** Hand History for Game 2810133261 *****
0/0 Omaha Game Table (PL) - Sun Oct 02 00:14:43 EDT 2005
Table Table 37092 (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: briachek4 ( $49.25)
Seat 2: TheDorfPlan ( $29.45)
Seat 3: habamuisk ( $64.80)
Seat 4: partyuch ( $46.92)
Seat 5: QTpie33 ( $44.40)
Seat 6: LINDER_DODGE ( $21.35)
Seat 7: IainMBanks ( $56.65)
Seat 8: ilovedeath ( $25)
Seat 9: Cutthroatjoe ( $33.25)
Seat 10: bluefishgo ( $21.55)
briachek4 posts small blind (0.10)
TheDorfPlan posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to briachek4 [ Js, Ac, Th, Qh ]
habamuisk calls (0.25)
partyuch calls (0.25)
QTpie33 folds.
LINDER_DODGE folds.
IainMBanks folds.
ilovedeath folds.
Cutthroatjoe folds.
bluefishgo folds.
briachek4 calls (0.15)
TheDorfPlan checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 8h, 7h, 9c ]
briachek4 checks.
TheDorfPlan checks.
habamuisk checks.
partyuch bets (0.95)
briachek4 raises (3.80) to 3.80
TheDorfPlan folds.
habamuisk folds.
partyuch calls (2.85)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 5h ]
briachek4 bets (8.20)
partyuch calls (8.20)
** Dealing River ** : [ Kd ]
habamuisk: homo saa puukosta
briachek4 bets (15)
partyuch calls (15)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $52.25 | Rake: $2.75
Board: [ 8h 7h 9c 5h Kd ]
briachek4 balance $74.25, bet $27.25, collected $52.25, net +$25 [ Js Ac Th Qh ] [ a flush, queen high -- Qh,Th,8h,7h,5h ]
partyuch balance $19.67, lost $27.25 [ Ts Jd 9s Kh ] [ a straight, seven to jack -- Jd,Ts,9c,8h,7h ]

Higher straight draw and flush draw. Another lesson to be learned here is to be able to fold your straight when the flush hits. He is calling big bets for what he probably thinks is a split. He could have lost $4 on this pot, instead he lost about 28.

Hand 3

***** Hand History for Game 2808586759 *****
0/0 Omaha Game Table (PL) - Sat Oct 01 19:29:22 EDT 2005
Table Table 37517 (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: ankartoft ( $24.90)
Seat 2: bullterrier0 ( $27.15)
Seat 4: HONEYDOODOO ( $25)
Seat 5: jaycee23 ( $51.42)
Seat 6: david198019 ( $19.40)
Seat 7: BDM05 ( $6.50)
Seat 8: mr_pekk ( $24.15)
Seat 9: Jdupont111 ( $24.50)
Seat 10: briachek4 ( $33.95)
david198019 posts small blind (0.10)
BDM05 posts big blind (0.25)
HONEYDOODOO posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to briachek4 [ Ad, 6h, 4s, Ah ]
mr_pekk calls (0.25)
Jdupont111 calls (0.25)
briachek4 calls (0.25)
ankartoft folds.
bullterrier0 folds.
HONEYDOODOO checks.
jaycee23 calls (0.25)
david198019 calls (0.15)
BDM05 raises (1.75) to 2
mr_pekk calls (1.75)
Jdupont111 folds.
briachek4 raises (8.75) to 9
HONEYDOODOO folds.
jaycee23 folds.
david198019 folds.
BDM05 calls (4.50)
BDM05 is all-In.
mr_pekk calls (7)
Creating Main Pot with $19.50 with BDM05
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 3d, 5h, Qh ]
mr_pekk bets (15.15)
mr_pekk is all-In.
briachek4 calls (15.15)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 5d ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 3c ]
Creating Side Pot 1 with $33.55 with mr_pekk
** Summary **
Main Pot: $19.50 | Side Pot 1: $33.55 | | Rake: $2.75
Board: [ 3d 5h Qh 5d 3c ]
BDM05 balance $0, lost $6.50 [ Jc Qc 8s As ] [ two pairs, queens and fives -- As,Qc,Qh,5h,5d ]
mr_pekk balance $0, lost $24.15 [ Kh Kc Tc 2c ] [ two pairs, kings and fives -- Kh,Kc,Qh,5h,5d ]
briachek4 balance $62.85, bet $24.15, collected $53.05, net +$28.90 [ Ad 6h 4s Ah ] [ two pairs, aces and fives -- Ad,Ah,Qh,5h,5d ]

I think this kinda fits in this topic. He may have gotten me to fold but I flopped an overpair, the straight draw and nut flush draw. Even if I knew he had QQ, I would call with those odds with all those outs. I thought I was practically dead on the turn but as it turns out, he was just a muppet with an overpair and no draw.

Am I posting these to brag? Of course, but there are lessons to be learned in each one of these. Against a non-brain dead opponent, straights and overpairs only go so far. Straights are easy to find and overpairs easy to crack. If I flopped the nut straight with nothing else, against many opponents, it is often best to just wait til the turn, look for a safe card and then act, IMO. You have to fold a danger card to pretty much any action because people will have it.

Will you get bluffed out occasionally? Yes. Will you give cheaper cards than necessary to draws? Yes. However, you can get them committed on the turn when they only have one card left to come and save yourself money when a bad card hits because they people often will not fold. Therefore, you are gambling it up to win half the pot (likely people have same straight) while they are gambling it up to win a couple stacks or possibly, splitting at worst.

Anyone have further thoughts on this? Disagree with what i've said? Discuss.
Brian [Js][9s]
Anyone who gets in a fair fight, has no tactical skills.
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Postby Felonius_Monk » Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:02 pm

Yeah, that's how to do it, generally. It's correct in PLO to fold the nut hand, in certain very specific situations.
The Monkman J[c]

"Informer, you no say daddy me snow me Ill go blame,
A licky boom boom down.
Detective mon said daddy me snow me stab someone down the lane,
A licky boom boom down." - Snow, 1993
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Postby briachek » Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:09 am

***** Hand History for Game 2838510307 *****
0/0 Omaha Game Table (PL) - Thu Oct 06 22:52:05 EDT 2005
Table Table 36722 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: WILDMAN247 ( $10)
Seat 2: fuzzymojo ( $36)
Seat 3: paddy4023 ( $23.85)
Seat 4: chickenlegs8 ( $8.15)
Seat 5: Bouxkizer007 ( $86.60)
Seat 6: rmb0005 ( $13.45)
Seat 7: SOFTSEAT ( $48.35)
Seat 8: beefaroni ( $11.85)
Seat 9: knockout122 ( $35.30)
Seat 10: briachek4 ( $52.04)
chickenlegs8 posts small blind (0.10)
Bouxkizer007 posts big blind (0.25)
WILDMAN247 posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to briachek4 [ Js, Tc, 9s, 7h ]
rmb0005 calls (0.25)
beefaroni calls (0.25)
knockout122 calls (0.25)
briachek4 calls (0.25)
WILDMAN247 checks.
fuzzymojo calls (0.25)
paddy4023 folds.
chickenlegs8 could not respond in time.(disconnected)
chickenlegs8 Disconnect Protection enabled.
Bouxkizer007 checks.
Creating Main Pot with $0.80 with chickenlegs8
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 6s, 9c, 8c ]
Bouxkizer007 checks.
rmb0005 bets (1.80)
beefaroni folds.
knockout122 folds.
briachek4 calls (1.80)
WILDMAN247 calls (1.80)
fuzzymojo calls (1.80)
Bouxkizer007 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 3h ]
rmb0005 bets (3)
briachek4 raises (17.60) to 17.60
WILDMAN247 folds.
fuzzymojo folds.
rmb0005 folds.
** Dealing River ** : [ 6h ]
** Summary **
Main Pot: $0.80 | Side Pot 1: $28.10 | Rake: $0.75
Board: [ 6s 9c 8c 3h 6h ]
chickenlegs8 balance $8.05, lost $0.10 [ Ad 3c 2s 2h ] [ two pairs, sixes and threes -- Ad,6s,6h,3c,3h ]
briachek4 balance $61.29, bet $19.65, collected $28.90, net +$9.25 [ Js Tc 9s 7h ] [ a straight, six to ten -- Tc,9c,8c,7h,6s ]

An example for waiting til the turn to raise. If the 6 came on the turn instead of river, I play it by ear but that turn is a blank. Another good thing by doing this is that someone without the straight can bluff at it again and I got an extra $3 out of the guy, plus, it made it easier to raise big. I might have pushed out a hand that would have boated.
Brian [Js][9s]
Anyone who gets in a fair fight, has no tactical skills.
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Postby briachek » Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:28 am

Not to beat a dead horse. Another example. Look at all the dead money i got in there

***** Hand History for Game 2843835174 *****
0/0 Omaha Game Table (PL) - Fri Oct 07 21:08:15 EDT 2005
Table Table 64009 (Real Money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: rememberVera ( $30.75)
Seat 2: IainMBanks ( $22.85)
Seat 3: killer4277 ( $19.20)
Seat 4: tyndalldawgs ( $22.90)
Seat 5: Bombjack33 ( $8.06)
Seat 6: SOFTSEAT ( $30.35)
Seat 7: LLLaf ( $44.15)
Seat 8: garrywise ( $30.30)
Seat 9: briachek4 ( $25.45)
Seat 10: slggrsrus ( $192.70)
garrywise posts small blind (0.10)
briachek4 posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to briachek4 [ Qh, Js, 4d, Tc ]
killer4277: wow.... sorry
LLLaf: lol
slggrsrus: trip somethin
slggrsrus folds.
rememberVera folds.
LLLaf: gotta love them 2 outers!
IainMBanks calls (0.25)
killer4277 folds.
tyndalldawgs folds.
Bombjack33 calls (0.25)
slggrsrus: its an overbet
SOFTSEAT calls (0.25)
LLLaf folds.
garrywise calls (0.15)
briachek4 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Qd, Kd, 9h ]
killer4277: how could i put him on trip 2s...
garrywise checks.
briachek4 checks.
slggrsrus: lol easy
IainMBanks checks.
killer4277: who calls pocket 2s to a raise =p
Bombjack33 bets (1.20)
SOFTSEAT calls (1.20)
slggrsrus: I know
garrywise folds.
slggrsrus: I had AA
briachek4 calls (1.20)
IainMBanks folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8h ]
briachek4 checks.
slggrsrus: and i folded
killer4277: no kiddin =p
Bombjack33 bets (4.65)
SOFTSEAT calls (4.65)
briachek4 raises (23.25) to 23.25
Bombjack33 calls (1.96)
Bombjack33 is all-In.
SOFTSEAT folds.
** Dealing River ** : [ 5s ]
slggrsrus: haha he deserved the lose
Creating Main Pot with $21.62 with Bombjack33
** Summary **
Main Pot: $21.62 | Side Pot 1: $16.64 | Rake: $1.10
Board: [ Qd Kd 9h 8h 5s ]
Bombjack33 balance $0, lost $8.06 [ 5h 8c Ks Qc ] [ two pairs, kings and queens -- Ks,Kd,Qc,Qd,9h ]
briachek4 balance $39.01, bet $24.70, collected $38.26, net +$13.56 [ Qh Js 4d Tc ] [ a straight, nine to king -- Kd,Qd,Js,Tc,9h ]
Brian [Js][9s]
Anyone who gets in a fair fight, has no tactical skills.
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