Hand #1: Do you think I missed a bet on the turn by not raising?

STAGE #217844923: HOLDEM NORMAL $1/$2 - 2005-11-03 00:56:50 (ET)
Table: ELIZABETH DR. (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 5 - OKA ($12 in chips)
Seat 6 - PAYMEDAMONEY ($83.50 in chips)
Seat 7 - BREWERSFAN1 ($36.50 in chips)
Seat 8 - I_LOSE_ALOT2 ($30.50 in chips)
Seat 9 - SPUDZOR ($44.25 in chips)
Seat 1 - SWIFTY27 ($61.62 in chips)
Seat 2 - QUGMIRE ($53.50 in chips)
Seat 3 - GOTGME ($68.25 in chips)
Seat 4 - REVSUBLIME ($48.39 in chips)

PAYMEDAMONEY - Posts small blind $0.50
BREWERSFAN1 - Posts big blind $1

*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to PAYMEDAMONEY [Qh]

I_LOSE_ALOT2 - Folds
SPUDZOR - Folds
SWIFTY27 - Folds
QUGMIRE - Folds
GOTGME - Calls $1
REVSUBLIME - Folds
OKA - Folds
PAYMEDAMONEY - Calls $0.50
BREWERSFAN1 - Checks

*** FLOP *** [10s][7d][8d] (1.5 BB)

PAYMEDAMONEY - Checks
BREWERSFAN1 - Bets $1
GOTGME - Calls $1
PAYMEDAMONEY - Calls $1 (Yes, I called with the gutshot getting only 5 to 1. Thought I would be able to make some money here if I hit it. Was only calling for 1 bet on the flop.)

*** TURN *** (3BB)

PAYMEDAMONEY - Checks (There's my straight. I figured that if I bet here I scare them off. Too obvious and I want to keep them both around.)

BREWERSFAN1 - Checks
GOTGME - Bets $2
PAYMEDAMONEY - Calls $2 (Is calling instead of check-raising here a mistake? I wanted to keep the 3rd player in, but as you can see he folded anyway.)
BREWERSFAN1 - Folds

*** RIVER ***[Ks] (5BB)

PAYMEDAMONEY - Bets $2
GOTGME - Calls $2

*** SHOW DOWN ***
PAYMEDAMONEY - Shows [Js Qh] (Straight, nine to king)
GOTGME - Mucks [7h] (Two pair, kings and sevens)
PAYMEDAMONEY Collects $13.50 from main pot

I'm not in the habit of calling gutshots without odds. I just had a feeling about the players involved here. The player that folded I had played over 300 hands against and he had been tight, but very aggressive. I thought he would stick around, but I was wrong. I actually feel bad for the guy as he seems like a solid player, but PT says I have beaten him 21 out of 28 pots that we've been in together and I've taken more money from him than any other player. Anyway, should I have check-raised the turn or am I just beating myself up in hind-sight?

Hand #2: I actually really like the way I played this one.

STAGE #217844191: HOLDEM NORMAL $1/$2 - 2005-11-03 00:55:32 (ET)
Table: BELUGA DR. (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
Seat 3 - SPUDZOR ($54.50 in chips)
Seat 4 - POKERAP100 ($48.75 in chips)
Seat 5 - BIG_CHIC ($30 in chips)
Seat 6 - JAGUARFARM ($3 in chips)
Seat 7 - IL_GANCIO ($72.12 in chips)
Seat 8 - DONATELLO888 ($90.50 in chips)
Seat 9 - IHATEMYSELF ($62.25 in chips)
Seat 1 - PIZON29 ($27 in chips)
Seat 2 - PAYMEDAMONEY ($65.01 in chips)

POKERAP100 - Posts small blind $0.50
BIG_CHIC - Posts big blind $1

*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to PAYMEDAMONEY [Qh]
JAGUARFARM - Folds
IL_GANCIO - Folds
DONATELLO888 - Folds
IHATEMYSELF - Folds
PIZON29 - Calls $1
PAYMEDAMONEY - Raises $2 to $2
SPUDZOR - Folds
POKERAP100 - Raises $2.50 to $3
BIG_CHIC - Folds
PIZON29 - Calls $2
PAYMEDAMONEY - Calls $1 (After over 200 hands, the SB re-raiser is one of the better players I've faced. I know I am in trouble vs. his raise.)

*** FLOP *** [8s][Th] (5BB)

POKERAP100 - Bets $1
PIZON29 - Calls $1
PAYMEDAMONEY - Raises $2 to $2 (Already got the straight, drawing to a straight-flush. No brainer. Straight out brute aggression here)
POKERAP100 - Calls $1
PIZON29 - Calls $1

*** TURN *** (8BB)

POKERAP100 - Checks
PIZON29 - Checks
PAYMEDAMONEY - Bets $2 (Not the straight flush and it actually could hurt me if there are higher flushes out there, but I can't worry about that.)
POKERAP100 - Folds
PIZON29 - Calls $2

*** RIVER ***[9c] (10BB)

PIZON29 - Checks
PAYMEDAMONEY - Bets $2 (Now there is a FH out there as well, but the pot is too big to stop now. I win this easily more than 1 in 10x. I have to bet)
PIZON29 - Folds
PAYMEDAMONEY - returned ($2) : not called

*** SHOW DOWN ***
PAYMEDAMONEY - Shows [Jh Qh] (Flush, queen high)
PAYMEDAMONEY Collects $19 from main pot


And even though I posted this hand in the Bad Beats section I gotta put it here too. I'm sending this guy an X-Mas card because I credit hiim with breaking my losing streak.

[9s] in CO.

One limp ahead of me, I limp, button limps, SB raises, BB folds, but everyone else calls.

4.5 BB in pot
Flop: [Kh][4s]

Raiser bets, I raise, he re-raises and I once again ask the Gods why they chose to let me flop top pair when he so obviously has Aces. I have to call this down because the pot is getting so big.

7.5 BB in pot
Turn:

He bets and I call.

9.5 BB in pot.
River:

He bets, I call. OK show me your Aces.

11 BB after the rake slide over to me as he shows................... [3h].
Yup he raised a 5 way pot pre-flop with that.

In the first hand, fold on that flop, it's not even close. You do not want to be continuing with marginal hands and marginal draws in puny pots like that. Since you continued, bet out the turn, it's too likely to be checked through if you don't.

You played the 2nd hand perfectly.

Ummm. Stop rationalizing calling flop bets getting 5 to 1 with a gutshot because of implied odds. Your saying your opponents are such that you think you'll really get paid off well if you hit? If you can get 1 big bet out of each of them on the turn and river (not bloody likely even if they are loose, since if you hit your straight the board will be 789T) then your implied odds are 14:1. Not even a big overlay with our magical hypothetical land. Now that that is said, the flop fold isnt as clear to me as it is to escapeplan, but I still say fold. You've got 2 overcards which leans me towards a call. However if you hit a J its very likely someone will have a straight, and the 2 diamonds out there without any in your hand exposes you to redraws. Even if you hit your J and its good (that is to say, it doesnt give someone a straight) its hard to imagine getting value out of it.

So let's recap. Our pot odds are terrible and even our theorized implied odds aren't very good. We may have additional outs but they are highly tained and suffer from reverse implied odds. Fold the flop.

If we magically got to the turn I think a check raise is in order (sorry EscapePlan ). He says its too likely to be checked through. He is right it very likely will get checked behind you. The problem is the board is 789T if you lead into him you'll only get action from a straight, which you will also get if you check raise. And to take this further, your thoughts of calling to keep the other guy in are crazy. He just saw a bet and a call on a 789T board, If he has a J, he's not folding, if he has a flush draw, he's not folding. The only hand you DON'T want to fold, that will fold if you check raise, is a hand like A6. Thats about the only hand on the turn here that will call 1 bet, but not two.


Hand #2

Aside from the pre flop raise (which I don't love or hate), this hand is so standard it's not really worth telling you that you played it fine (checking that river in fear of a full house is comically weak).


Hand #3

I don't really like your limp. If the guy (the limper) is weak/tight post flop or very loose passive I would raise pre flop and try to isolate. If he is tight or aggressive I'd muck and avoid the heartache post flop.

"I have to call this down.............." is thinking that makes me wanna puke. Fold to that turn bet. I know you won. Unless we know the SB is a moron like this one was, you gotta fold on that turn. The pot isn't that big.

Wow a long strategy post from me. How odd. Cherish it boys, the next one is weeks away.

I think even giving your overcard outs 1.5 each is too much in this situation. A diamond could be tainted and a J puts 4-to-the-straight on board. Plus, your 9 outs aren't all that great! Anyone else holding a J will split the pot with you if a 9 hits the board. Even giving yourself a full 7 outs (way too generous), you're only getting 5:1 in a infinitessemly small pot - FOLD!

I disagree with Xaston on the turn play. Someone with the sucker straight or a flush draw will stay in.

I had a question on hand 2.

Is this an easy raise after a limper?

I would be calling here.

am I wrong?

MTPaid:

On hand 1--I think you should just bet the flop...especially if you are planning on calling a bet anyway.

--Fred