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Brilliant play, or just lucky? - Live Poker Forums

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Brilliant play, or just lucky?

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Brilliant play, or just lucky?

Postby stickdude » Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:56 pm

I don't want to be results-oriented and think that just because I hit my 2-outter with the free river card that my play was flawless... So, I'll run this by you guys to see what you think.

I had just sat down at the table, so didn't really have any reads on anyone yet.

Texas Hold'em $0.50-$1 (real money), hand #1,591,211,380
Table Camden, 14 Dec 2005 10:56 PM ET

Seat 1: ronin23 ($27.60 in chips)
Seat 2: stickdude [ [7c],[7d] ] ($48.05 in chips)
Seat 3: TerryLad1 ($27.95 in chips)
Seat 5: NakedMole ($18.05 in chips)
Seat 6: Wu Fang ($22.85 in chips)
Seat 7: plus1jack ($25.15 in chips)
Seat 8: whootdee ($27.65 in chips)
Seat 9: thu-ha ($21.55 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
NakedMole posts blind ($0.25), Wu Fang posts blind ($0.50).

PRE-FLOP
plus1jack calls $0.50, whootdee folds, thu-ha folds, ronin23 folds, stickdude calls $0.50, TerryLad1 folds, NakedMole calls $0.25, Wu Fang bets $0.50, plus1jack calls $0.50, stickdude calls $0.50, NakedMole calls $0.50.

A raise from the BB that I and 3 others call. Nothing too out of the ordinary here.

FLOP [board cards [4h],[Jh],[Jc] ]
NakedMole checks, Wu Fang bets $0.50, plus1jack folds, stickdude bets $1, NakedMole calls $1, Wu Fang calls $0.50.

interesting flop - doesn't really help me, but I doubt that it really helps anyone else, either. The bet from the BB is most likely a garden-variety continuation bet, and I really doubt that he has one of the two remaining Jacks. The raise here has two purposes - try to get someone to lay down overcards/overpair by representing a Jack here, and get a free card on the turn since I have position on everyone.

TURN [board cards [4h],[Jh],[Jc],[Qs] ]
NakedMole checks, Wu Fang checks, stickdude checks.

They want to give me a free card, I'll take it. I don't think a bet here would really drive anyone out, and I don't know if someone spiked a pair with the queen.

RIVER [board cards [4h],[Jh],[Jc],[Qs],[7h] ]
NakedMole bets $1, Wu Fang folds, stickdude bets $2, NakedMole calls $1.

Well, just the card I wanted to see! :) I was hoping that NakedMole had just made his flush here and 3-bets me, but he doesn't get too crazy.

SHOWDOWN
stickdude shows [ [7c],[7d] ]
NakedMole mucks cards
stickdude wins $10.50.

SUMMARY
Dealer: TerryLad1
Pot: $11 | Rake: $0.50
ronin23 loses $0
stickdude bets $4, collects $10.50, net $6.50
TerryLad1 loses $0
NakedMole loses $4
Wu Fang loses $2
plus1jack loses $1
whootdee loses $0
thu-ha loses $0

So, was the flop raise a stroke a genius, or a stroke of something else?
"My name is Inigo Montoya. You cracked my Aces... prepare to die"
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Postby MecosKing » Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:16 pm

Well, he's obviously got some sort of a hand because he cold called 2 bets on the flop. Id have played this hand the same way. Raise to flop to limit the field and see if your sevens are good against the raisor and all that- but when the guy calls 2 cold AND an overcard falls on the turn, im not liking my hand that much here, so i might check the turn also. However, betting the turn and mucking to a raise is not a bad option either, since i dont think id really want to be in a position where i am having to call the cold callers turn bet, hoping he was onna flush draw and that my 77 is still best hand. As it worked out, it was a NIHAN by you. My guess is the guy made a flush on the river, because to coldcall that flop raise he needs wither hearts or the jack, and since he checked the turn he probly doesnt have a jack unless he's one of those idiots that will slowplay his trips so much that he'll actually let it check around on the turn hoping to trap someone on the river--which is pretty unusual.
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Postby stickdude » Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:24 pm

"My name is Inigo Montoya. You cracked my Aces... prepare to die"
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Postby Ebonwoulfe » Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:44 pm

I think you're taking the free card play a little too far if you're raising on a flop of JJ4 with 77 thinking that the only way you can win is to spike your set. I think the raise is good, though, because it could serves many purposes... it gives the flush draw poorer odds, it might make overcards fold, and you might actually be betting the best hand for value. I think a turn bet is definately in order though.

You say you want a free card on the turn because you have position, and then you didn't even USE that position with the knowledge you gained! Why didn't you bet the turn? The Q isn't too scary for you, since it's unlikely that the original bettor had a Q and it's HIGHLY unlikely that the first player called two cold with a Q, unless it was a heart. I bet that you're either still ahead or completely crushed, and if you're currently being crushed by someone with a J, then the flop play is neither here nor there. I mean, drop in a bet on the turn, if someone raises you off of it, fine let them. You probably are up against the J, and you're only giving up 5% of the pot equity by folding (if even that much, he might already be full).

In summary : The flop raise was fine. If anything, you donked up the turn. You should bet your hands that have no outs if already beaten and check your hands that if beaten have outs. This is the former case, since you only have two outs and they might not be good if someone has JQ. The fact that your 7 came on the end to possibly save your hide is neither here nor there.
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