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Making the wrong decision... every time - Live Poker Forums

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Making the wrong decision... every time

Postby Stoneburg » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:13 pm

#1
Dealt to Hero [Kd] [Jh] [Ks] [Ts]
Hero calls [$0.50].
griffinite1 folds.
cozofu folds.
cozofu: hehe, you calling station
PAULVA calls [$0.50].
ProfessorH folds.
Cloughsghost folds.
DigOut calls [$0.50].
xxsalukisxx folds.
max4858 checks.

** Dealing Flop ** [Kh] [5c] [6s]
max4858 checks.
Hero bets [$0.50].
PAULVA folds.
DigOut calls [$0.50].
max4858 calls [$0.50].

** Dealing Turn ** [7s]
max4858 bets [$1].
Hero raises [$2].
DigOut folds.
max4858 calls [$1].

** Dealing River ** [Td]
max4858 checks.
Hero bets [$1].
max4858 calls [$1].
Hero shows [Kd] [Jh] [Ks] [Ts] three of a kind, kings.
max4858 shows [3c] [3h] [Th] [4h] a straight, three to seven.
max4858 shows 7,6,5,4,3 for low.
max4858 wins $4.63 from the main pot with a straight, three to seven.
max4858 wins Lo ($4.62) from the main pot with 7,6,5,4,3.

--------------------------------------
#2
Dealt to Hero [6c] [As] [Ad] [Qd]
soldifacili folds.
POKERDOG9876 calls [$0.50].
SMT242 calls [$0.50].
panicinhanoi calls [$0.50].
arthur637 folds.
DigOut folds.
hmoosejaw folds.
andres3223 calls [$0.50].
Hero calls [$0.25].
MoxLotus25 checks.

** Dealing Flop ** [Ah] [Tc] [5d]
Hero bets [$0.50].
MoxLotus25 raises [$1].
POKERDOG9876 folds.
SMT242 folds.
panicinhanoi calls [$1].
andres3223 calls [$1].
Hero calls [$0.50].

** Dealing Turn ** [4h]
Hero checks.
MoxLotus25 bets [$1].
panicinhanoi folds.
andres3223 folds.
Hero calls [$1].

** Dealing River ** [Ks]
Hero checks.
MoxLotus25 checks.
Hero shows [6c] [As] [Ad] [Qd] three of a kind, aces.
MoxLotus25 doesn't show [3h] [Js] [Ts] [Th] three of a kind, tens.
Hero wins $8.50 from the main pot with three of a kind, aces.
There was no qualifying low hand.
POKERDOG9876 has left the table.


--------------------------------------
#3
Dealt to Hero [Kc] [6c] [Ts] [7s]
DriverC calls [$0.50].
IReckone folds.
POKERDOG9876 calls [$0.50].
SMT242 calls [$0.50].
onobono111 folds.
max4858 calls [$0.50].
trips63 calls [$0.50].
Bucs2002 folds.
panicinhanoi calls [$0.25].
Hero checks.

** Dealing Flop ** [7c] [6d] [3s]
panicinhanoi checks.
Hero checks.
DriverC checks.
POKERDOG9876 checks.
SMT242 checks.
max4858 bets [$0.50].
trips63 calls [$0.50].
panicinhanoi folds.
Hero calls [$0.50].
DriverC folds.
POKERDOG9876 calls [$0.50].
SMT242 calls [$0.50].

** Dealing Turn ** [Ks]
Hero checks.
POKERDOG9876 checks.
SMT242 checks.
max4858 bets [$1].
trips63 calls [$1].
Hero calls [$1].
POKERDOG9876 calls [$1].
SMT242 folds.

** Dealing River ** [9h]
Hero checks.
POKERDOG9876 checks.
max4858 bets [$1].
trips63 calls [$1].
Hero folds.
POKERDOG9876 folds.
max4858 shows [Ad] [Jd] [2d] [9c] a pair of nines.
max4858 shows 7,6,3,2,A for low.
trips63 shows [Ah] [2s] [8c] [Qh] high card ace.
trips63 shows 7,6,3,2,A for low.
max4858 wins $5.63 from the main pot with a pair of nines.
max4858 wins Lo ($2.81) from the main pot with 7,6,3,2,A.
trips63 wins Lo ($2.81) from the main pot with 7,6,3,2,A.

--------------------------------------
#4
Dealt to Hero [Qd] [Kh] [Ks] [Ah]
xxsalukisxx calls [$0.50].
max4858 checks.
vulcan123 calls [$0.50].
Hero calls [$0.50].
griffinite1 calls [$0.50].
cozofu checks.
alfalfa7 folds.
Cloughsghost folds.
stoveman checks.

** Dealing Flop ** [3d] [Kc] [5c]
stoveman checks.
xxsalukisxx checks.
max4858 checks.
vulcan123 checks.
Hero checks.
griffinite1 checks.
cozofu checks.

** Dealing Turn ** [Jd]
stoveman checks.
xxsalukisxx checks.
max4858 checks.
vulcan123 bets [$1].
Hero raises [$2].
griffinite1 folds.
cozofu folds.
stoveman folds.
xxsalukisxx folds.
max4858 calls [$2].
vulcan123 calls [$1].

** Dealing River ** [4s]
max4858 bets [$1].
vulcan123 raises [$2].
Hero folds.
max4858 raises [$2].
vulcan123 raises [$2].
max4858 calls [$1].
vulcan123 shows [2d] [3s] [Js] [6d] a straight, two to six.
vulcan123 shows 6,5,4,3,2 for low.
max4858 shows [Tc] [6h] [Ad] [7c] a straight, three to seven.
max4858 shows 6,5,4,3,A for low.
max4858 wins $8.50 from the main pot with a straight, three to seven.
max4858 wins Lo ($8.50) from the main pot with 6,5,4,3,A.



Three out of 4 hands I make the wrong decision on the river. I save 2 bets by folding top set in hand #4 but lose over 10 with my other decisions. I'm definetely f-cking up big time here. Help and/or guidelines would be appreciated.
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Postby Ojingo » Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:46 pm

#1: could try a checkraise on the flop, even if it gets checked around then you have more FE on the turn. Don't raise the turn. You may be drawing to half the pot.
#2: You have to worry about a 234x-type hand being out there; flop aggression is fine here, but you have to slow down on the turn, as you did. In general you will lose here more often than not, so a cheap showdown is desirable, unless your opponent is insane.
#3: Two pair on that board against 6 opponents is a fold for me. You'll always be guessing if your hand is good or not, and usually it's not.
#4: perfect
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Postby Felonius_Monk » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:30 pm

The Monkman J[c]

"Informer, you no say daddy me snow me Ill go blame,
A licky boom boom down.
Detective mon said daddy me snow me stab someone down the lane,
A licky boom boom down." - Snow, 1993
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Postby Drade » Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:38 pm

These hands illustrate the trouble with high only hands in O/8. In all these instances you get "good" flops for your hand, and yet you still end up losing the hands or ending up with tough decisions. In limit O/8, high only hands really need a lot of company, more so than in PL. In PL I think you can get away with playing high oriented hands a little more, because you can really punish people to chase draws and when they miss, you stack them, or at least win nice sized pots. In limit, you can't really punish anybody to draw and when they miss, you don't stack them. This fact, coupled with how much more often draws get there when mutiple players are trying to run you down, and the mutliple times lows take half your pot, should drive this point home.

There are also a few other things I'd advise.

Hand 4, you check the flop. You play a high only hand, hit top set with a two flush and two lows out, you can't check. It's criminal. Make it a rule, when you know you have the best hand, bet or raise, refuse to slow play. Whatever the action is, put in money with the best hand and re-evaluate the turn or river. When you're not sure if you have the best hand, say a flush or straight is present, don't be afraid to put in bets as long as you have clean outs. Say the flop on hand 4 were [Kc] [Th] [Qs] , or it were all clubs, a bet is still ok. You must charge players on the draw, even when you may not be best now. An added benefit of leading at these types of hands, is the other chasers who call your bet, generally give you the correct odds to hit a boat when somebody who has you beat now raises. So, you know who's got you beat, and you now have very good odds to improve. It's win-win.

A second thing you should work on is understanding when the low gets there, how that affects your draw. First things first, when the low hits, you now have to realize that with your high hand, you're only playing for half a pot. That affects the price you're getting to draw. If the low hits the turn and it completes a draw, it's not the end of the world for you to fold a set, and it's often times correct, based on the price half a pot is laying you. Another example, you drawing to the nut flush with no low. The turn competes the low but not the flush and you're facing action. Determine whether the price is right to continue and then take the appropriate action.

Marginal low hands and high only hands can be a huge leak in O/8 if you don't know what you're doing. At the lowest limits, I'd say just stick to the best hands, play them fast, and get paid off. Once you've got a good grasp of the game, expanding your starting hands can add a little extra to your wins, but the majority of your wins will always come from the bread and butter hands.

Drade
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Postby Stoneburg » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:27 am

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Postby Felonius_Monk » Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:53 pm

The Monkman J[c]

"Informer, you no say daddy me snow me Ill go blame,
A licky boom boom down.
Detective mon said daddy me snow me stab someone down the lane,
A licky boom boom down." - Snow, 1993
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Postby stickdude » Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:59 pm

"My name is Inigo Montoya. You cracked my Aces... prepare to die"
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Postby Felonius_Monk » Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:15 pm

The Monkman J[c]

"Informer, you no say daddy me snow me Ill go blame,
A licky boom boom down.
Detective mon said daddy me snow me stab someone down the lane,
A licky boom boom down." - Snow, 1993
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Posts: 7243
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Postby Felonius_Monk » Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:17 pm

The Monkman J[c]

"Informer, you no say daddy me snow me Ill go blame,
A licky boom boom down.
Detective mon said daddy me snow me stab someone down the lane,
A licky boom boom down." - Snow, 1993
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Posts: 7243
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Postby Stoneburg » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:16 pm

Yeah, when that card came off I was calling to boat up but figured I had to call any bet on the river. If the card had been a blank I would have jammed it. Guess he was afraid of the wheel too, took him ages to decide to check behind.

Thanks for the great feedback, immensly helpful. :)
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Postby Ojingo » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:39 pm

My response was indeed a bit ambiguous. I meant fold flop for hand #3. On the river you have to spew off more chips because you just might get the pot, as Monk said...
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