Either I'm an idiot or well....you decide:

My opponent was a big stack that had overplayed some hands but was a good player. Only played good hands.

Stacks
Me - $236
Opponent - $350

$100 max buyin NL on Party. 1/2 blinds

Coming towards the end of a 4 hour session for me. I have [Tc] and limp in middle position. The big stack raises to $10 from LP. I was gonna fold but then saw he had me covered and I decide I'd try and hit a monster to double my stack.

Two players
[Js][9c] pot: $23

Exactly the kind of flop I was looking for. I have the nut open ended draw with a backdoor Queen high flush draw. I check and await to see what the preflop raiser will do. He bets $15 in the $23 pot. I decide to cold-call. If I raise here he might stuff me out with a reraise with a high pocket pair. I wanted his stack not the flop money.


TURN pot $53
[Js][9c][Th]

I hit a pair of tens to go along with my openended draw. The board is now 4 to the straight missing the 8. My backdoor flush draw is gone. I check again. He fires out $30. I call. (WTF am I calling this for?)

RIVER pot $113
[Js][9c][Th][3h]

The river changes nothing. I have a pair of tens..nothing. I check expecting him to check and take it down. Instead he decides to fire out $55 into the $113. I stop and think...Does he think I have nothing here? I cold called him twice and yet he still fires out again. Does he have AK on a bluff? QK for a nut straight? QK doesnt seem likely at all to me. He's been so tight I just don't see him raising $10 with it preflop. My gut says he has QQ-AA or maybe JJ for trips...and still believes he is good.

I raise his $55 to $181. I decided that he cannot call this bet unless he holds QK. No other hand except a random 8 (which i was 100% sure he didn't have) can call this bet. Not a logical good player anyway....which he seemed to be.

I'll post the results later but just wanted some thoughts. Personally, looking back on it, it seems pretty stupid. I was positive $200 for the 4 hour session and was putting that all on the line for a bluff. Also add in the fact I'm on a bad run and haven't posted a good hearty profit in a couple of days and it just seems too risky of a river play.

I like my flop play but hate my call on the turn. My openended draw was pretty obvious on the turn so if I hit on the river....it's doubftul I could get any money from him, especially with me acting first. Hell, he might even have a queen as well so we would split. I should have folded the turn def, my implied odds had gone to crap and my draw wasn 't nearly as good as it was on the flop. I honestly don't know what I was thinking at that point in the hand. 4 hours is usually my limit for playing, so I'm thinking I must have just lost my edge at this point in the game.

Any Thoughts on this interesting hand? Don't worry, this kind of play is not something I do often, if ever....but I did think it would be great for analysis.

Results later.

I don't like it. He bet the river, so he doesn't think you have an eight. It would be hard for me to imagine trying to overplay a hand this hard like AK or AQ...I would have never reraised him here...probably folded preflop if I was tired too.

You crazy man!

I thinkonly the best of players is going to fold an overpiar at that point after investing so much. I wouldnt try that play at Party

and if he doesn't have an overpair and he raised with a pocket pair he is very likely to have a set. If Iceman is right that he wouldn't fold an overpair then it isn't lilely he'd fold a set either.

Either way the move certainly takes a lot of balls, and it is a huge re-raise so maybe you'll get to take it down. I personally wouldn't make the flop limp in a NL game (especially when it sounds like you open-limped) and I agree that your turn call was weak.

Your opponent bet preflop, on the flop, the turn and the river, every chance he got, he bet, you're actions were check and call. You saw the flop with the hope of flopping a monster, the flop gave a straight draw, out of position. The flop call is fine, though if you get and 8 will you get paid?, If a K comes, does that ruin your opponents QQ?

Obviously the turn call is going too far. the reraise on the river surely contradicts the received wisdom of not playing marginal hands out of position, not tangling with fellow big stacks with such hands and also not bluffing with all your chips.

I think its one of those traps that players get themself into, just because you can't put you're opponent on a specific big hand does not mean they don't have one. You went from trying to flop a monster to bluff check raising because you thought the opponent couldn't call.

You volunteered yourself into a bad situation, you limped pre flop hoping to play a normal pot, instead to went to war with "a big stack that had overplayed some hands but was a good player. Only played good hands". Someone who overplays big starting hands is the exact person who will call with less than KQ for the straight.

I don't mean to sound so damning by the way

Molina

IMHO: what the **** were you thinking?

Words of wisdom from John Vorhaus (sp) (the Killer Poker guy): "Don't challenge good players. Challenge bad players. That's what they're there for."

I fold this preflop. If I'm looking to double up, I want to try to do it against a lousy player. You'll get extra chances to win. See odogg's hand in this forum for an example ("200 NL hand from weekend").

Of course, what do I know?

I say the player had QQ and you were drawing dead to runner runner 10 or a split... If you think your opponent is bluffin why re-raise the mininum?? CALL! seemed pretty obvious,unless you wanted to give some money away.
Or move all-in, go for the bluff!

I think his play makes it seem very much as though he has JJ. You said he only plays good hands, and JJ is a reasonable hand to raise 4xBB with in LP. He hits top set, and decides to bet every street. I think he makes that river bet because he doesn't think you have the straight after checking to him and wants a call. Your raise is very suspicious because you checked to him all the way - most players wouldn't check the river with the straight. I make these plays on occasion as well, but overall I have found it to be rather unprofitable. It probably works better if you have a very tight image, and your opponent is willing to lay down some big hands. Against your average moron, though, he will call everytime if he has JJ here.

RESULTS:

He held QK for the nuts and annhilated my ass. The lesson to learn here is to not outthink yourself, especially at the end of a long session. I have to be 100% sure of what he is holding here and he still has to fold a good hand. It's not a profitable play and stupid on my part.

I don't mind open limping with this hand and calling the preflop raise with the stacks the way they were. I was looking to hit a big hand but should have released on the turn. I ended up outplaying myself on the river and turning a good session into an even session.

I did get him to pause for a few seconds at least. when he saw the raise he must have been like WTF...did I miss something? haha. Oh well! I've learned my lesson. And I guess thats what matters the most. Not gonna be a mistake I repeat, that's for sure.

Thanks for all your input everyone.