Here's a thing...

I'd doubled up the previous hand and with a limper and in MP A4s was worth speculating 60 chips on. Checking the flop with this many people in the pot was straightforward (someone's got a better ace right?). The problem starts on the turn, surely I can't lay down top pair for 60 chips? And once I've done that calling another 60 given the pot odds must be right??

Come the river it's another 200 into a pretty decent pot to stay in. I folded, but should I have called? Should I have dropped out earlier? If so when?

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t30/t60
8 players


Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is MP1 with
UTG calls t60 (pot was t90), UTG+1 folds, Hero calls t60 (pot was t150), MP2 folds, CO calls t60 (pot was t210), Button folds, SB calls t30 (pot was t270), BB checks.

Flop: (t300, 5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: (t300, 5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets t60, Hero calls t60 (pot was t360), CO calls t60 (pot was t420), SB folds, BB raises to t120, UTG calls t60 (pot was t600), Hero calls t60 (pot was t660), CO calls t60 (pot was t720).

River: (t780, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets t200, Hero folds

This flop is a good example of why I don't like to play a hand like A2s. But since you saw the cheap flop - what are you looking for? I assume you are hoping for some hearts on the flop and all you got was an ace. Now you have top pair - chitty kicker. With 3 checks to you on the flop - you have to throw out a bet to get some info. Tell the table that you have an ace. You want to know who has another ace and hopefully thin the field a bit. Depending upon your betting style I would think 1/3 to 1/2 pot (100-150) would be sufficient to get this info.

Since all checked to a free turn - a min-bet now could mean anything. Does he have a king? Maybe QJ and this is a value bet - not wanting to run everyone off. You need to raise here to this bet or fold now. It is way too passive to just smooth call even for just 60 chips. You need to know what he has - or at least how much he likes that hand. And you need to tell others at the table you want this pot. Either that or get out. What were you hoping to see on the river? Another ace doesn't neccessarily help you. A deuce? Now you have the bookend pairs. That is pretty vulnerable on this board as well.

You ended up spending 120 chips to get to the river and had no info for it. That 120 would have been better invested on the flop.

I'm sorry - as I re-read this I sound harsh. I don't mean to be - this is how I talk to myself when I am analyzing my own play. Basically you call with A2s to play for a flush. When you didn't get that flop - if you are going to continue at all you have to know how good your ace is. Get that info as early and as cheaply as possible.

I completely agree with you sunbob and it's exactly why I would fold preflop with a smaller stack and even with the decent stack I had would let it go more often than not.

With >3 players I assume someone has an ace til shown otherwise... so I agree either check fold or raise to find out and I did neither.

Not a horrible mistake but it's these kind of hands that I think can kill you by adding up over the course of a SnG career to a major leak.

Passive loose nonsense from me all round

If you're going to play AXs with a few limpers, I'd recommend only doing it in a later position than MP. There's fewer people to raise after you pre-flop and you get more information on each street.

With that said, it's not worth betting out multi-way onto an ATx flop with two of the same suit. Good check. Calling the first turn bet is fine, but BB did a check min-raise on the turn, so you DEFINITELY should be folding there. Your hand is almost certainly no good! And you don't know which outs are clean, if any.

No good can come of playing Ax passively from MP unless you plan to fold it to any action if you don't flop two pairs or better. I absolutely would not limp in with it. You're only asking for chip-bleeding trouble when you do. Either try a preflop steal with it or fold it.

Fold PF...

Seriously.

yes, a PF fold is the best option most likely.

I've just noticed that the hand convertor doesn't include stack sizes.

I agree with folding Axs preflop early in the vast majority of cases, however in this circumstance I had 4500 chips while the rest of the field had circa 2000 (I'd doubled up in conventional style the previous hand).

I'm not looking to justify the preflop call (I think it's loose and as the title of the thread suggests a leak) but what are people's views on the affect on starting hand selection when you are fortunate enough to double up early. Do you tighten up? Stay the same? Or play a few more speculative hands because the impact of a limp on your stack is not so great assuming you can let go post flop?

Personally I tend to sit on the stack more often than not and wait for either a big hand or the real game to begin 5 handed.