Fishy Peel

[Beavis68]

I felt like I could get a chip card and have a chance to really improve my hand.

PokerStars Game #6186081586: 7 Card Stud Hi/Lo Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/09/05 - 22:56:33 (ET)
Table 'Lipperta' 8-max
Seat 1: freaker ($22.60 in chips)
Seat 2: Stolt.R.III ($13.55 in chips)
Seat 3: beavis68 ($9.85 in chips)
Seat 4: schottky ($49.95 in chips)
Seat 5: Lolli74 ($13.70 in chips)
Seat 6: gypsysky76 ($15.95 in chips)
Seat 7: swamie ($12.95 in chips)
Seat 8: okieaction ($17.35 in chips)
freaker: posts the ante $0.05
Stolt.R.III: posts the ante $0.05
beavis68: posts the ante $0.05
schottky: posts the ante $0.05
Lolli74: posts the ante $0.05
gypsysky76: posts the ante $0.05
swamie: posts the ante $0.05
okieaction: posts the ante $0.05
*** 3rd STREET ***
Dealt to freaker
Dealt to Stolt.R.III
Dealt to beavis68 [4d 8h 6d]
Dealt to schottky
Dealt to Lolli74
Dealt to gypsysky76
Dealt to swamie
Dealt to okieaction
freaker: brings-in low $0.25
Stolt.R.III: folds
beavis68: calls $0.25
schottky: folds
Lolli74: folds
gypsysky76: folds
swamie: calls $0.25
okieaction: folds
*** 4th STREET ***
Dealt to freaker
Dealt to beavis68 [4d 8h 6d]
Dealt to swamie
swamie: bets $0.50
freaker: folds
beavis68: calls $0.50
*** 5th STREET ***
Dealt to beavis68 [4d 8h 6d 9d]
Dealt to swamie [Ac As]
swamie: bets $1
beavis68: calls $1
*** 6th STREET ***
Dealt to beavis68 [4d 8h 6d 9d 3h]
Dealt to swamie [Ac As Jc]
swamie: bets $1
beavis68: raises $1 to $2
swamie: calls $1
*** RIVER ***
Dealt to beavis68 [4d 8h 6d 9d 3h Ad]
swamie: checks
beavis68: bets $1
swamie: calls $1
*** SHOW DOWN ***
beavis68: shows [4d 8h 6d 9d 3h Ad 8d] (HI: a flush, Ace high; LO: 8,6,4,3,A)
swamie: mucks hand
beavis68 collected $4.85 from pot
beavis68 collected $4.85 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $10.15 | Rake $0.45
Seat 1: freaker folded on the 4th Street
Seat 2: Stolt.R.III folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 3: beavis68 showed [4d 8h 6d 9d 3h Ad 8d] and won ($9.70) with HI: a flush, Ace high; LO: 8,6,4,3,A
Seat 4: schottky folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Lolli74 folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 6: gypsysky76 folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 7: swamie mucked [3c 2d Ac As Jc Qh 5d]
Seat 8: okieaction folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)

[flafishy]

[Beavis68]

[flafishy]

[Beavis68]

[flafishy]

[Xaston]

[flafishy]

[Beavis68]

[Xaston]

[Beavis68]

I am sorry, but you a little off base, and I do not appreciate the personal attack.

He has AA showing, but what he has in the hole is un known. I could be J7, it could be KQ.

If he doesnt have a strong backdoor low draw, I am sure you equity goes way up on fourth.

In fact, you equity leaps up to 43% if he has QJ in the hole.

Looking at the HH and saying, well the raise was bad because you do not have enough equity is not the right way to look at poker hands.

Personally, I wouldn't raise ofen here, but it opens up some possibilities and creates confusion in your opponnent.

If I knew the guy had A23 in the hole, would have folded on 3rd.

[Xaston]

[The Golden 1]

I don't know much about stud but I know a decent amount about poker and I know at .50/1 Stud8b when my opponent is showing aces and i'm showing 69d there's no way in hell he is folding, he is going to 3 bet me there a helluva lot of the time. I agree with Xas that there is pretty much no point in raising, I guess the call is OK though I'm not too big a fan of it. As for once you hit another low card on 5th and he's showing one low card I'm definitely raising there, he can't 3 bet us there with less than AAA I think so we'll get a free card if we miss our low and there's a good chance we even get a free showdown though your hand doesn't have a whole lot of showdown value at the moment.

Also I think you guys are way overanalyzing your opponents, I see this in every forum. Why are you thinking "He should've folded that there blah blah blah" Most of these guys are donks or they're just having fun. Trying to rationalize that is just pointless. You should pay much more attention to what you're doing wrong.

[Beavis68]

[flafishy]

Nor did I say it should be raised. I said I might have raised -- my implication being that I would have considered it.

Don't know how much stud/8 you've played, Xas, but strong draws rule this game. An AA showing is far from a monster hand. As it turns out, he did have a monster at this point with 23 in the hole. Anyway, I doubt that he's going to 3-bet me on fourth unless he's a complete donkey. You don't really want to mix it up much in Stud/8 with a high hand.

And why are we bringing the words "fold equity" into the discussion? Nowhere did I suggest to raise with the intention of getting him to fold. I would raise here with the intention of getting him to slow down and check fifth and give me a free card. Or to get him to check-fold if he bricks fifth and I improve. No, you don't have fold equity on fourth. But a raise here could possibly give you fold equity on fifth. At the very least, it might tell you how much he likes his hand. Fourth street is where you need to get all the information you can and establish where you are before the bets double on fifth.

As for analyzing the opponent's play, why the hell not? We're here to discuss ideas and strategies, and opponent's play here inspired me to discuss that particular strategy -- as an endorsement of what we should think about doing, not to point out that he's a donk.

And Beav, yeah, this is a little beyond where Todd B. goes in SS/2. This gets more into Zee territory.

Golden, are you saying you would have folded fourth? If so, why?