Underaggression with AK?

[musicman80]

OK, guys... those of you who've not laughed at my posts and have offered constructive criticism (hrm, OK, well, that's all of you, I guess ) have seen that I often worry about overaggression.

This time, it's the opposite. I had AK in MP1 ... and MP3 had been pretty playing pretty loose-aggressive, so I wasn't sure how far to push TPTK.

I'll let y'all decide how well the hand was played.

Ultimate Bet 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Weenie is MP1 with , .
UTG raises, 1 fold, Weenie calls, MP2 calls, MP3 =#A500AF(LAGdude)/ calls, 2 folds, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (11 SB) , , (5 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, Weenie raises, MP2 calls, LAGdude 3-bets, SB calls, UTG folds, Weenie calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (12 BB) (4 players)
SB bets, Weenie calls, MP2 folds, LAGdude calls.

River: (15 BB) (3 players)
SB bets, Weenie calls, LAGdude calls.

Final Pot: 18 BB

[musicman80]

hehe.. oops, forgot to actually post the results of the hand.

Results in white below:
SB has Js Ah (three of a kind, aces).
Weenie has Kc Ad (three of a kind, aces).
LAGdude has 5h 6h (two pair, aces and sixes).
Outcome: Weenie wins 18 BB.

[MecosKing]

Musicman:

Your hand is not as weenie-ish as you might think. Now, if there werent like four thousand people in the pot, then i might say you shouldve pumped it somewhere along the way there. With that type of action on the flop, you gotta worry about a set or aces up, improving to a boat. If a paint card didnt come on the river, i might say pump it once, since if someone made a boat on the turn, youd have seen a raise, unless it was the UTG, and we are assuming that he probly didnt raise it with A-rag, or a micro-PP from under the gun.

The Q is honestly a scare card, because it couldve boated someone- still could pump it, but your already winnin a big one, and even if you got the UTG outkicked anyway a ragged ace might muck in the face of a raise so you would win the same amount of bets anyway, but risk losing more than one bet because if you get repumped, your obviously calling.

Of course, there is also the whole 'pump the turn, and give the draws incorrect odds to call' argument, and if you get repumped then so be it. I can see validity in both viewpoints, so i think that you couldve legitimately played the hand either way. I think this would be one of those 'marginal situations' i keep hearing about.

Im shure the better players will have more enligtening stuff to say---

[nolimpin]

[Tiburon]

[briachek]

My take is that I would have 3 bet preflop especially if UTG was a LAG. I act the same on the flop and just call his 3 bet but on the turn, I raise it and just call if reraised. If I was reraised on the turn, I just call the river but if not, I bet/raise that river and if someone has AQ, they are gonna get 2 more bets out of me but I think it makes you money in the long run.

[Nortonesque]

I'll always 3-bet preflop with AK if I have position on the raiser.

Definitely raise that turn -- the ace was a great card for you and you have to charge someone drawing to the flush.

[musicman80]

Thanks for all the comments - if there was one resounding theme, I think it was that I should have raised the turn. And that's exactly what I thought I should have done, just seconds after I'd actually won the pot, which is good, I guess, because it means that I'm at least recognizing what was "right". There's always the possibility that MP3 wouldn't have cold-called a raise (though wasn't likely from the way he'd been playing). Less likely, I suppose, SB might have folded - but he also had a big ace - so maybe not, if he thought I had a weak ace, or even something like KQs.

Given that I didn't raise the turn, though (and since there didn't seem to be much more action), I could have probably raised the river for value, no? Because my call on 4th would have most likely represented KQs, the more I look at it. In fact, I'm almost positive that SB was thinking precisely that - so I guess there could be some credit for the "deception". In either situation, I probably could have squeezed 3-4 more BB out of the others. I happened to get lucky that I didn't run into AQ, I suppose.

I guess I just looked at all the potential hands that could have snuck up on me (Ax, AQ, flush draw), and wasn't sure what MP3 might be playing (turns out it was absolutely horrible trash!), and thought I'd play it safe.

The one comment I'm not sure I understand is the pre-flop raise with AKo in early MP - I've generally been under the impression that AKs is a good bit stronger than AKo - strong enough to actually make it 3 bets to go, while AKo might not be strong enough to make it a raising hand when it's already 2 to go. What are peoples' thoughts on this? If I were in LP, I would have been much more inclined to throw in an extra bet, especially to try and isolate MP3. I just didn't feel comfortable doing this with AKo - but perhaps I'm mistaken, and the difference between the two isn't great enough to warrant a significant difference in pre-flop play?

[MecosKing]