Classic Free Card play (or should i have bet the turn?)

[Trons]

Only about 20 hands at this table...no real reads on anybody....

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (9 handed) from (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, A.
3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero caps, Button calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (14.50 SB) 7, 2, T (3 players)
MP3 bets, Hero raises, Button folds, MP3 3-bets, Hero caps, MP3 calls.

Turn: (11.25 BB) 4 (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero checks.

River: (11.25 BB) 8 (2 players)
MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB

Results in white below:
MP3 has 8h 9h (one pair, eights).
Hero has Kc Ac (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 15.25 BB.

[antneye]

[Beavis68]

[growlers]

I am not sure it is this simple. The pot is freaking huge. I thnk you guys are wrong.

What if we miss and villian bets a non-club let's say a non-club 10 or 7 on the river. AK does have some showdown value and we hate to fold since we may be chopping with some guy with AK or even a real maniac with AQ.
If we check and villian bets river we are getting 12.25:1 It is hard to not make a crying call here with ANY hand that might hold up at showdown.

There is also some tiny chance that villian folds to a bet on the turn, but that must be balanced against the chance he checkraises (although we likely have so many outs it is not a disaster if he does).

I actually like betting turn and checking behind on a nonclub, nonace, nonking river.
We get extra bets when we hit and it costs the same as check turn, call river.

I like a free card play when I can fold the river unimproved and I can't do that in this hand.

Change our hand to and I like the play.

[Zuccala]

I think you have to bet that turn. You have 15 outs to great hand given the speific board. You know that and is gonna win you the hand for sure and that any K or A is lost likley to win you the hand. With all those outs I think a bets is a must. Then if he calls and you miss on the river, just check behind.

I like the check behind if we are against many opponents or we don't have such a great hand. If we had the [Kc] on a [7h][2s] and I was 3-bet on this flop I may check behind on the turn if i did not pick up a If there is ANY chance he will fold i will bet (he 3-bet so not likley) if there is a chance to reduce opponents I bet (its already heads up) or if my draw is EXTREMELY strong I bet 15 outs to TP or nut flush. If I had just a regular FD I may just check, but with any extra outs I think its makes it a bet.

Not to mention that he checked to you on the the turn. If he had a AT,KT,QT,JT he would be betting that. SO that stink of draw.

[Zuccala]

One thing I forgot to mentionis hat IF you decide to check, you will lose more when you lose and win less when you when. If you check and show weakness, that MP bettor can lead with anything on the river (most likley a busted draw, because of his check on turn) AND you are going to have to call to stop that. If you bet turn and miss on the river, he will most likley check to you on river so you lose the same (or you can bet to steal). But this is where you gain...Its when you bet the turn and HIT the river (15 outs). You win that extra turn bet.

[Trons]

<--Bows to Growlers (as usual

Hind sight being what it was, I figured I should have bet the turn (although I think I ended up getting the same amount of bets...He check/calls the turn, then check/calls the river (= 2 BB) or he bets the river and makes a cryign call to my raise (= 2BB). The more I think about it, I'm not sure he would have check/called the river had I bet out on the turn. At that point he may not have put me on a FD, but he probably could have put me on a Overpair giving the PF and Flop action...

Obviously, this is one of those hands that I've been replaying in my mind to the point that I've tried to put myself in his place. I would have check/called (IF I had been him) the turn, but once I didn't hit my str8 on the river, I'd be hard pressed to call a bet on the river.

We know that pot odds dictate that you call that bet because you're getting better then 10:1 pot odds, but not everybody has read SSHE and so most people (In my experience) will fold to a river bet if they don't hit their draw.

Now, the arguement can be had that I have absolutely no idea how many people pair their hand but miss their draw and still fold to the river bet with that large of a pot...and you are correct. However, I have to put myself in his place, and on the river, before I was familiar with pot odds to call for a potential bluff... I fold his hand.

I will say that when I was in the hand, I had to possiblitiles for the river after checking the turn...I don't hit and he bets into me (I make a crying call to ward off bluff chances (I would have lost this hand) or I hit and I induced a bluff and he folds to the river bet (showing the table I can't be bluffed off a hand or I play my strong hand agressively...either image works for me). I really didn't expect him to bet into me with the 8 hitting...it seemed like such a safe card to him (giving me the flush I wasn't even worried about trips, although I wish he would have had them .

So, the question remains, given that the number of bets I collected was equal to a check/call-check/call from him or a check/check-bet/raise/call...what was the better play?

[Zuccala]

[growlers]

[Beavis68]

you dont have fifteen outs to a great hand.

you have 7 outs to a great hand and 8 outs to a possible winner. WTF is a 3 betting the flop that he is not calling the turn?

Trons, dont post the results even if white. Almost no opponent 3 bets a straight draw there,

[antneye]

I think Growlers is right about betting the turn. I need to go meditate like Dr. House for a while while I try to decipher this mystery. Could it be I've been playing this wrong?

Heads up this a bet?

[Zuccala]

I should have said 9 to great and 15 to strong. I did not think that he board pairing would have been a problem as this villan did not bet the turn. I took that as a drawing hand. I would have thought that a made hand would have bet that turn....Oh well

[growlers]

[SebQtaneus]

[Beavis68]