AA out of position in crap situation

[kennyg]

Prima Poker .50/1.00 NL $100 max buy in
Stacks
Me - $120
button- $350 (I haven't seen him play many hands)
cutoff- $25 (just logged on to table

This is from memory since I don't have the hand history yet. Folded to me in MP (two off the button). I raise [Ah] to $4. The cutoff and the button call.

FLOP pot $13
[9d][7h]

I bet $10 acting first. Cutoff calls instantly and only has about $10 left. Button (big stack) min raises me to $20.

I decide to reraise here and put him off a mediocre hand, and to see if I can get info if he has trips or not. I reraise his $20 and make it to $60. It's $40 for him to call.Cutoff moves all-in with his last $10 as expected. Button calls fairly quickly as well. I don't like how this is playing out..

TURN pot around $150
[9d][7h][7s]
The rainbow is completed.The cutoff is no longer a factor as he is all in. I act first and am unsure what to do. I decide the button must have trip 9's or 10's with all the action and check in front without hesistating too long. (after all..i haven't seen him play many hands since I sat down.) He checks behind me quickly. Now I'm even more confused...is he really unsure about his hand now or is he trying to draw me in?

RIVER pot around $150
[9d][7h][7s][Ts]

UGH! Lovely river card. Top card now paired. My aces are looking small. I check praying he will check behind with something like JJ-KK. He moves all-in.
It's the perfect spot for a bluff and I find it impossible to call. I figure even if somehow I'm beating him..the other guy is probably beating me..it just wasn't worth it. If it was a bluff, he could have it but I decide he is probably holding something like A10.

I fold my Aces.

RESULTS
Button shows [Tc] for full house 10's full of 7's. Cutoff shows [Qc].
Button takes it on a miracle river.

So the question is guys....how did I play this hand...??? Could it have been played differently?? This was a tough situation out of position.

[Rhound50]

First off I dont like the raise preflop out of postion. A $4 raise UTG is asking for you to end up with 7 callers in the pot and you playing the hand out of postion. By the only $4 raise you are asking for someone to call you with suited connectors any small pocket pair, even KQ. I would have raised $10, I am a big fan of over betting aces out of positon. First off the overbet often times makes you look weak, and that you are trying to not see a flop and take down the pot with 1010 or JJ. Second over betting with AA will usually gurantee you that you are playing the hand heads up. If no one has a calling hand than you win $3 but atleast you won.

After the flop I think you played this correctly, I would be a scared by the min raise also, this screams of him trying to get you to call but get more money in the pot. After the river you have to fold, there are just far to many different hand that beat you and very little you can beat.

[kennyg]

Actually I was in MP..2 off the button (reedited the first post to make that clearer.)

I do usually make it $ 5 or $6 to go from UTG or very EP but it was folded to me 2 off the button... I didn't think a standard 4xBB raise was gonna get me in trouble (espeically since I hadn't been getting action all day.)

Anyone else think I should have went for a bigger preflop raise?

[Bob314]

Round, which site do you play on? The only site I can imagine you getting action on that kind of opening raise (TEN TIMES THE BB!!) is PP/Empire. Unless, of course, your opponent has K-K or Q-Q. If I'm open raising with any hand I'm making it 4x the BB to go and modifying that amount depending on the number of limpers.

Kennyg, that is a really tough spot to play out of position, but why does he just call your huge re-raise if he has a set? Wouldn't he move in there because he is getting action on his 3 of a kind? Following that logic you push in the turn, but you have just under $60 left and the pot is 2.5 times that amount, so can probably expect a call followed by a suckout. Just gotta make a note that he can't get off top pair with a mediocre kicker for future reference.

[Rhound50]

Bob yes I do play on party and yes I have gotten action with a 10x BB raise from UTG and yes it is excesive but in that postion I'm ok with not getting much action, expcially on party where there is so much action, I d rather have that than making it $4 having the two people behind me call, then everyone is getting odds to call with their hands and playing the hand out of postion against 6 or seven players. Of course this isn't always right and against a tight table I wont raise that big but you dont find to many of those on party.

Kenny from middle postion with one or none limpers in front of you, your preflop raise does seem to be more correct, again maybe from playing so many party tables I would still make it a little larger. I always want to make my raise more than 10% of my stack with a big pocket pair. The reason for this i,s the rule I use when calling a raise with small PP is I will only call for set value if my opponant and I both have 10X or more than the raise. So If I make the raise $6 here I feel like I'm not giving him valeu to call and try to flop a set vs my big pair. Thus giving me a postive expected value vs a call or a fold.

[iceman5]

I actually much much much prefer limping with AA and KK in EP. In MP, Im fine with the 4BB raise, but lately Ive been going even higher because I keep getting stuck in these damn tough situations with big pairs.
Even at 6BBs I get called by J9s and the like.

[Mad Genius]

[kennyg]

Yeah if he's gonna call a $40 reraise why fold to another big bet??

Why can't I benefit on other's mistake damn't??

[Stapher]

I like your play Kenny. AA doesn't win everyhand. After he called your reraise on the flop you were correct in giving the hand up. After he called your reraise on the flop I would have been thinking trip 10's but when he checked the turn it might be that he is a loose player on a straight draw. Either way, when the 10 hits the river your hand garbage and a fold is in order.

[MindOverMatter]

I find that giving people credit for a set on these sites and limits is a losing strategy. On the turn I make him for T9 and that I just counterfeited him at the worst; at the best he has a live openended draw. I'm all in in front here on the turn almost every time to shut down the hand. If he can't let go of a sucker two pair I get paid.

With an overpair I like to have the decision made on the turn for my stack if there's been substantial action; either put it in the middle or surrender the hand.

I do think the river is an obvious fold here, good play kennyg.

[Felonius_Monk]

Would you have called an all-in from your opponent on the turn? If this is the case, you made an error by not moving all in yourself.

Reasoning:

If he has a set, he will move all in on turn or river. Therefore, regardless whether you move in yourself or make the call, you'll lose your last $60, barring an ace hitting.

HOWEVER, if he has something like JJ, QQ or T9, you have him dominated and are big favourite to win it, but with so many chips committed to the pot it's unlikely he'll be able to get away from any of these hands on the turn, although playing passively it's also unlikely he will move in on either of these hands, and a bad card like an A or K on the river and he might fold, failing to net you that last 60 bucks.

Therefore, if you intend to call a bet on either turn or river (in the absence of that yucky T hitting) you should really just move in on the turn. It does seem very likely he has a set, but then again the pot is getting large now and I think it's tough for you to get away from this one, as you'll be getting around 3.5-1 on the call on the turn. So I say move in there and then.

In terms of your preflop action, I have no trouble with it because I have played at Royal Vegas and know that the tables tend to be fairly passive. Unless there's a LAG maniac type itching to raise downriver of you, I think a standard raise is required otherwise you run the risk of seeing a flop with about 4 or 5 callers for a buck, or blasting everyone out for $10. I am surprised that Rhound is getting action even at Party with $10 raises in the $50NL games even in EP because with two aces out of the deck, I believe the chances of opponents having AK or a big PP are greatly reduced.

Monk
xxxxx

[kennyg]