How does one NOT lose 7BB here?

[Tiburon]

***** Hand History for Game 2594723791 *****
$1/$2 Texas Hold'em - Thursday, August 25, 09:18:30 EDT 2005
Table Table 41360 (9 max) (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: SchoppenAarz ( $20.50 )
Seat 2: ESK222 ( $48.50 )
Seat 4: SkinFace ( $62.25 )
Seat 5: WJUVE ( $24.43 )
Seat 6: Tiburon723 ( $37.50 )
Seat 7: Vienna888 ( $73.75 )
Seat 9: MrMamous ( $36.50 )
Seat 8: torbenns1 ( $50 )
Seat 3: Salmon483 ( $50 )

Tiburon723 posts small blind [$0.50].
Vienna888 posts big blind [$1].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Tiburon723
3 folds.
SkinFace raises [$2]
WJUVE calls [$2]
Tiburon723 raises [$2.50]
Vienna888 calls [$2]
SkinFace calls [$1]
WJUVE calls [$1]

** Dealing Flop **
Tiburon723 bets [$1]
Vienna888 calls [$1]
SkinFace calls [$1]
WJUVE calls [$1]

** Dealing Turn **
Tiburon723 bets [$2]
Vienna888 calls [$2]
SkinFace calls [$2]
WJUVE calls [$2]

** Dealing River **
Tiburon723 bets [$2].
Vienna888 folds.
SkinFace folds.
WJUVE raises [$4]
Tiburon723 raises [$4]
WJUVE raises [$4]
Tiburon723 calls [$2]

WJUVE shows [ 9c, 6c ] a straight, five to nine.
Tiburon723 doesn't show [ Ac, Ad ] a pair of aces.
WJUVE wins $39 from the main pot with a straight, five to nine.


I truthfully don't know how you guys playing low limit at Empire make any money. I had KK broken on a limit table 4 times in 2 sessions, all to RIVERED STRAIGHTS. I've never seen so many bad players in one place at one time. Call. Call. Call. River Raise.

ATs--flop of A-T-3. I lose--to J3o when he calls 3 raises to catch a 3 on the river. The above asshole was 65%/3%/0.34. How can you win with play like this? You hold TPTK with 5 players calling to the river, and you're going to get beat. They're so bad, they keep calling with bottom pair because they're too STUPID to realize that they're beat.

I barely broken even over 1100 hands--INCLUDING THE RELOAD. In English, I lost almost $100 playing premiums at limit tables. Party/Empire---it's what poker players do when they're not playing poker.



I think what I'm gonna do is just play NL at Empire, and limit at my other sites. Look out NL forum, here I come.

[EscapePlan9]

And me... I had a tough time finding tables with >25% VP$IP during this Empire reload period. Over the course of 1k-some hands I only ended up $106 profit (including the bonus). Then when I found the loose players I ran into these similar situations you mentioned. I know I want these players at my table in the long-run because more often than not their terrible draws and crap hands will lose to my superior ones and I'll be paid off nicely.

Do you really want everyone at the table to only play profitable hands and only call with the right odds? You'd be struggling to break even!

[Tiburon]

[ale_k300]

Tiburon i really know what you mean, yesterday i was playing 1/2 to try to put hands for the bonus at empire, got dealt been BB , got 2 callers and SB Raises, i reraise, one of the other callers folds and the other one calls (he is 75 % / 0 % and AF less than 1 over 35 hands) SB caps and i call ( MP calls too of course ).

Board is

SB bets, i call , the other guy in MP calls

turn

SB bets again, i raise, MP calls, SB reraises, i cap , and both call

river

SB checks, i bet, MP raises , SB calls , i call

MP shows And then i reamember why i hate low limit...

besides that i think that he should folded preflop , did i do something wrong or are just these low limit tables that suck???


Alex.

[EscapePlan9]

You're only playing 12% of your hands against extra loose players? With people playing such horrid cards and playing them so terribly post-flop, you should WANT to play more hands. I play 17-18% on the looser PP .5/1 tables and I'm up 10.8bb/100 in those conditions (5k+ plus hands). I doubt you put in 5k+ hands there. If you did, I'd be amazed to hear you not winning at least 1.5bb/100.

Your KK is miles ahead of the crap they play and you will win far more often than them. Let's say your opponents play any suited, any pair, any broadway, AX down to A7, and KX down to K9. That's a little more than 40% VP$IP. Against 3 of these opponents, your KK holds up more than 50% of the time (realistically even more than that since you'd probably heard from them if they had QQ-AA or AK).

(From PokerStove)
11,744,161 games 51.688 secs 227,212 games/sec

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 52.0956 % 51.78% 00.31% { KcKd }

Hand 2: 15.9767 % 15.46% 00.52% { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, A7o+, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }

Hand 3: 15.9689 % 15.45% 00.52% { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, A7o+, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }

Hand 4: 15.9588 % 15.44% 00.52% { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, A7o+, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }

[piersmajestyk]

Sorry you had such a tough get go on those limit tables. That shit can and does happen to the best of us but there will also be those days were you just crush those fools when they miss all of their draws. I have played nearly 1000 hands in 2 days of 0.50-1.00 just passing some time and knocking out that bonus and I am up 2.00 with some gawd awful fools putting some serious asswhippings to my big hands. Just take it in stride and try not to sweat it too much, keep playing solid and you will get them.

You just need to catch a couple of fools like this at your table

$0.50/$1 Texas Hold'em - Thursday, August 25, 09:10:22 EDT 2005
Table Table 13963 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: CT453213 ( $28.38 )
Seat 3: Louvren ( $16.51 )
Seat 4: pdanielsson ( $18.25 )
Seat 5: lates_redeye ( $12.50 )
Seat 6: taylor556 ( $78.36 )
Seat 7: PM ( $297.25 )
Seat 8: PADME_77 ( $31.08 )
Seat 10: Petertjem ( $13.25 )
Seat 1: temala ( $11.11 )
PM posts small blind [$0.25].
PADME_77 posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to PM [ Th Ah ]
>You have options at Table 32448 Table!.
temala folds.
>You have options at Table 13961 Table!.
CT453213 folds.
>You have options at Table 13961 Table!.
Louvren folds.
pdanielsson folds.
lates_redeye calls [$0.50].
taylor556 raises [$1].
>You have options at Table 13961 Table!.
PM calls [$0.75].
PADME_77 folds.
lates_redeye calls [$0.50].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5h, 9h, 6c ]
PM bets [$0.50].
lates_redeye folds.
>You have options at Table 25371 Table!.
taylor556 raises [$1].
>You have options at Table 13961 Table!.
PM calls [$0.50].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 3h ]
PM [$1].
taylor556 raises [$2].
PM [$2].
>You have options at Table 25371 Table!.
taylor556 raises [$2].
PM [$1].
** Dealing River ** [ Qc ]
PM bets [$1].
taylor556 raises [$2].
PM raises [$2].
taylor556 raises [$2].
PM calls [$1].
taylor556 shows [ 7c, Jc ] high card queen.
PM shows [ Th, Ah ] a flush, ace high.
PM wins $20.50 from the main pot with a flush, ace high.
>You have options at Table 25371 Table!.
lol

[Xaston]

I don't like 3 betting the river with 1 pair.

[EscapePlan9]

[ale_k300]

Yeah i like to cry i little bit, i don't think these tables are terrible, what i think is that you see some terrible beats and that sucks, because you got a lot of showdown muppets and fish that just call call call, on the long run i know that i'm big +EV with my game against their game, but you know, seen this kind of stuff is just funny.

[EscapePlan9]

Poker Stove is fun... so I'll simulate Tiburon's scenario again. You have AA, someone has 96 of clubs, the other two have whatever crap.

Pre-flop:
8,655,712 games 35.969 secs 240,643 games/sec

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 58.3772 % 58.26% 00.12% { AcAd }

Hand 2: 13.1503 % 12.76% 00.39% { JJ-22, AQs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AQo-A7o, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }

Hand 3: 13.1473 % 12.76% 00.39% { JJ-22, AQs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AQo-A7o, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }

Hand 4: 15.3252 % 14.92% 00.40% { 9c6c }
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You cannot argue with having 60% equity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Flop:
15,983,311 games 35.187 secs 454,239 games/sec

Board: 7c 3s 2h

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 70.2678 % 70.27% 00.00% { AcAd }

Hand 2: 10.4177 % 10.30% 00.12% { JJ-22, AQs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AQo-A7o, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }

Hand 3: 10.4311 % 10.32% 00.12% { JJ-22, AQs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AQo-A7o, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }

Hand 4: 08.8834 % 08.73% 00.16% { 9c6c }
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You now have 70% equity! 96s will only outdraw you 9% of the time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Turn:
15,989,844 games 28.063 secs 569,783 games/sec

Board: 7c 3s 2h 8d

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 66.3429 % 66.34% 00.00% { AcAd }

Hand 2: 07.9639 % 07.87% 00.09% { JJ-22, AQs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AQo-A7o, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }

Hand 3: 07.9475 % 07.86% 00.09% { JJ-22, AQs-A2s, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AQo-A7o, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }

Hand 4: 17.7457 % 17.59% 00.16% { 9c6c }
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You still have over 65% equity here! But now 96 picked up the OESD and will outdraw you 18% of the time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Always remember the long-term.

[EscapePlan9]

Also... you would have only lost 5BB if you didn't re-raise on the river with your UI aces. Loose-passive players re-raising you on the river usually means STRONG HAND. You can't fold with your aces, but re-raising here is wasting money.

[Tiburon]

[Big_Leon]

[EscapePlan9]

[Big_Leon]