Ok Is this a bad beat!

[spoonz]

or should I have laid down for fear of the straight!

** Game ID 481145819 starting - 2005-09-01 20:21:04
** Catch Him Down [Hold 'em] (0.25|0.50 Fixed Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- bluesupreme sitting in seat 1 with $9.47
- EMD69 sitting in seat 2 with $27.80
- lixaR sitting in seat 3 with $5.07
- bigspoonz sitting in seat 4 with $34.82
- hanibn sitting in seat 6 with $5.19 [Dealer]

bluesupreme posted the small blind - $0.12
EMD69 posted the big blind - $0.25
** Dealing card to bigspoonz: Ace of Clubs, Ace of Diamonds
lixaR called - $0.25
bigspoonz called - $0.25
hanibn folded
bluesupreme called - $0.25
EMD69 checked

** Dealing the flop: Queen of Hearts, 3 of Spades, 10 of Diamonds
bluesupreme checked
EMD69 checked
lixaR checked
bigspoonz checked

** Dealing the turn: Ace of Hearts
bluesupreme checked
EMD69 checked
lixaR bet - $0.50
bigspoonz raised - $1.00
bluesupreme folded
EMD69 folded
lixaR raised - $1.50
bigspoonz raised - $2.00
lixaR called - $2.00

** Dealing the river: Jack of Diamonds
lixaR bet - $0.50
bigspoonz called - $0.50
lixaR shows: Jack of Spades, King of Hearts
bigspoonz mucks:
lixaR wins $5.70 from the main pot

[Tiburon]

First of all--why did you limp with ?

When you're playing limit, you have to at least make people pay to see it--however, if he played it UTG shorthanded, he probably would have called a raise with it too. You also checked the flop. You let him get a free card to beat you.

He flopped an open-ended straight draw (OESD). He had 8 outs to hit his hand. The same that gave you trips also gave him his straight.

On the flop, you're a 3-to-1 favorite to win, despite his 8 outs for the straight. You don't make him pay to see another card.

The turn card gives you trips, and gives him his straight. He's got you beat.

You played this hand WAY too passively, and let someone take a free card and beat you. Now, he may have been bad enough of a player to call a bet on the flop with an OESD, but once the turn hits, he bets, you raise, and he re-raises you, the only hand that can beat you is one that isn't afraid of that ace. The on the river didn't help or hurt him, and the best thing you did here was not try and raise him on the river.

It's tough to lay down trip Aces, but I wouldn't call it a bad beat.

[spoonz]

cheers mate, very helpful

reason i checked the flop was I was looking for action with the AA, thought they would all fold.

BIG mistake. guess i should take what I can get hence why I should have raised preflop

[Tiburon]

There's a guy on this board with a screen name of "Never_Slowplay_AA..." --that's all I have to say about that. I totally understand looking for action. If you're raising pre-flop, check the flop (if you're into that at all-- ), or if you don't raise pre-flop, hit the flop. Either way, I think he calls you.

Whenever the board looks coordinated (2 to a straight or flush) on the flop, you need to defend your hand. At 0.25/0.50, you'll get action, believe me. Once that Ace hits the board and he comes along for the cap with you, you have to figure you're beat. I figure I'm beat with the re-raise.

Tough hand either way...

[spoonz]

[Tiburon]

No--basically I'm saying playing weak initially then playing strong COULD POTENTIALLY be okay.

The problem in your case, however, is that I don't think he lays down the open-ender regardless of what you bet.

Personally when playing limit, I NEVER limp AA, for any reason. Raise and re-raise. It's too easy for someone playing 84o to limp in and catch two pair to beat you.

The moral of the story is to leave the tricky plays to those players who don't mind losing a few BB. Raise that up, and bet the flop. If he folds, he folds. You finish the hand up.

[spoonz]

thanks, really appreciate the feedback

pick the bones out of this one

after all the preflop betting I thought it was worth me calling considering the pot odds and being on the button

The turn and river where relatively cheap. Interested to hear your thoughts again!


- howie50 sitting in seat 1 with $3.65
- Dogchaser sitting in seat 2 with $45.66
- anderzson sitting in seat 3 with $27.38
- bigspoonz sitting in seat 4 with $38.19 [Dealer]
- llanelsuna sitting in seat 5 with $36.47
- hanibn sitting in seat 6 with $0.70

llanelsuna posted the small blind - $0.12
hanibn posted the big blind - $0.25
** Dealing card to bigspoonz: 4 of Spades, 4 of Diamonds
howie50 called - $0.25
Dogchaser called - $0.25
anderzson raised - $0.50
bigspoonz called - $0.50
llanelsuna raised - $0.75
hanibn went all-in - $0.70
howie50 called - $0.95
Dogchaser folded
anderzson called - $0.95
bigspoonz called - $0.95
llanelsuna called - $0.95

** Dealing the flop: 3 of Hearts, 2 of Spades, 7 of Clubs
llanelsuna checked
howie50 checked
anderzson bet - $0.25
bigspoonz called - $0.25
llanelsuna folded
howie50 called - $0.25

** Dealing the turn: 3 of Clubs
howie50 bet - $0.50
anderzson called - $0.50
bigspoonz called - $0.50

** Dealing the river: 4 of Clubs
howie50 bet - $0.50
anderzson called - $0.50
bigspoonz raised - $1.00
howie50 called - $1.00
anderzson called - $1.00
hanibn shows: 6 of Spades, Queen of Hearts
anderzson mucks:
bigspoonz wins $4.70 from the main pot
bigspoonz wins $9.95 from side pot 1

End of game 481206121

[Tiburon]

You're on the button in a game full of idiots with a pocket pair. Why not?

You cold called an LP raise pre-flop, then had to call 2 more bets cold. I'm being a devil's advocate here. Would you call $6 cold, then another $6 if it were a 3/6 game? But I digress.

With the nitwits you're playing with here, this isn't a bad play at all.

On the flop, you've got a double gutter, with only one overcard to your pair. Would I call a bet here? Absolutely. The turn gives you 2 pair--2 small pair, but two pair nonetheless. The only hands you're behind are overpairs to your 4, 56, or any hand containing a 7. You've got a reasonable expectation here, except if you fear that someone has an overpair, which with all the pre-flop raising is a possibility. The river card is your gin card.

The only thing that beats you here is 77 or 33, so you've definitely got a hand. I'd have played it very similarly to how you did.

Nice job, but damn, those tables are loose. One nitwit played ? These games are card catching contests. Continued luck to you!!!

[spoonz]

i know, i am getting continually frustrated by calling stations playing 70% to the river once they seen the flop.

Im so tempted to raise my stakes to play against people who know what they doing but fear ill get busted straight away. Also I need to get some bankroll behind me aswell but im getting that from other sources

i need to improve my aggression and preflop game before i try that.

[Tiburon]

Don't worry--I've sat at 3/6 tables with 5 of 10 players having VP$IP's > 50%, and AF-Totals < 1.00

...and that's 3/6.

[spoonz]

[spoonz]

[Tiburon]

[EscapePlan9]

[spoonz]

thanks chaps

From all this I have established the following


1) I must be playing too many borderline hands to be at 30+%

2) Im not calclating pot odds accurately, im "educated guessing" the outs and going with my gut. I find theirs not enough tme before I have to make a decision but I guess that comes with experince.

3) Im not being aggressive enough preflop, perhaps because Im worried about losing too many BB if the flop isnt favourable. Sorting my bankroll as we speak.

I guess its all good practice