For all who spanked me yesterday, did I do better?

[SebQtaneus]

I had low connectors this time. I figured they were both live cards for this reason. The raiser was extremely loose according to poker tracker. The SB was his only caller before me. I even check raised the flop. Not just because I caught a piece of the flop but also because the entire flop was low. I doubted he was raising with 2's or 5's. Whether he was actually trying to steal my blind or not, did I play it correctly from the BB?

Empire Poker 1/2 Hold'em (7 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
3 folds, CO raises, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) , , (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets, SB calls, Hero raises, CO calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: (7.50 BB) (2 players)
Hero bets, CO folds.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

[EscapePlan9]

PF: fold. SB has called and you have complete crap - 54o. With another two callers, I'd call with 54s. But NEVER with 54o unless folded to me in the BB.

Flop: I would have lead out with a bet. Once again, recognize who pre-flop raised. Betting here would allow him to raise and knock out the SB. You found a lucky SB willing to fold one more bet back to him.

[briachek]

I actually like it more than EP9 which is surprising. You are getting 5:1 your money. I do agree with leading out to hope to push out the SB and you did get lucky there. Depending on how much of a muppet he is, I might 3 bet the flop if he raises and/or go for the turn check raise. If he calls or raises there, you have to revaluate if he has a pocket pair.

I'm not denying that this is marginal but I don't think its so bad. Its definitely much better than the last one.

[majakovskij]

You got lucky. Again.

Against a loose stealer (like this CO), if SB folds, I probably call. Then I go for the ol' check-raise, regardless of what hits. But against a steal and a call, a 5 and a 4 are two pieces of trash. You fold them even if they're suited. You want to have high cards against a steal, not tiny connectors. You're not looking to draw to a straight here, as the implied odds are about as low as they can be. Even if you hit your straight on fourth or fifth street, you're not likely to get paid for it. Remember, he's stealing with a trash hand. He's not looking for a showdown.

I think you misunderstood my post from yesterday completely. When I said that it's ok to gamble with connectors once in a while (preferably at least JT or T9 as you don't want draw to the low end of a straight), I meant in a raised pot with several callers. If you hit your straight and you're up against big pairs... well, this time you will get paid - big time. It's all about implied odds.

If a loose CO or Button open-raises for the umpteenth time, you can consider calling with 72 if it's heads-up (this is very important) to try to muscle him out of the pot and show him you won't be pushed around.

"Other" forum threads that might be of some help:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showf ... =5&o=&vc=1

http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/sho ... t=all&vc=1

[SebQtaneus]

OK, so basically what I am getting from this, as the main point (not the only point though) you guys are trying to tell me, is that I am only supposed to defend my blind (with anything other than AA, KK, QQ) if the raiser got no callers and it's on me to call or fold? Am I correct in that? And then when I do call, it had better be with nothing worse than mid to high suited connectors?
If this is the case, then I was under the wrong impression about the reason for, and process of, defending your blind. I'm sure I'm showing my noobness with these questions but I thought there was a difference between "playing from the blind" and "defending your blind". I thought that when you were playing from the bilnd you were doing so with a very strong starting hand with the intent of winning as big a pot as you would normally try to win from the other positions. And that defending your blind meant playing a hand that would normally be considered crap with the hope of winning the hand with a lucky flop outright or forcing the raiser off the best hand and then getting to show him your cards so that he would know not to fuck with you when it's your blind. Like I said, I probably misunderstood all this but that was the basis I have been working from. Obviously this has been the hardest part of the Limit game for me to learn and I do appreciate the help.

[EscapePlan9]

"Defending your blind" only applies to situations where the raise was with the intent of stealing the blinds. Of course you never know if the CO or MP3 raise was for value (TT-AA, AK, etc) or to take down the blinds. Against unknowns, the later the raise came in, the more likely it's a steal. That's when it matters if you defend your blind or not.

Let's say you're in the BB with complete trash (94o or whatever). CO open-raises, SB calls. You should fold. You don't want to play 94o 3-handed even against a likely steal attempt from the CO since the SB likely has a decent hand. If SB folded, then there's a Piers case for calling.

When the pot will be 3-handed, you shouldn't be calling from the BB except with pocket pairs, premium hands, and your stronger suited connectors (for me, anything 54s or higher).

[TightWad]

As much as I hate to pump up piers's ego even moreso than it already is lemme just say that I've played with piers quite a lot, and therefore seen many, MANY blind defenses. Not sure I've ever seen him play a hand outside the blinds, but anyway...

Piers is damned good at what he does. He plays very aggressively, gets a lot of folds, and at the same time manages to get more value than any man alive out of bottom pair He also, as far as I can tell, knows when to get away or when to just not bother trying to take a pot down.

I know I can't play shitty hands OOP perfectly, so I don't defend with absolutely any ol' garbage, even against a steal raise. I need at least some kind of straight or flush potential, or (obviously) a hand that I think figures to be a good bit better than the raiser's range.

I would encourage everyone on here to pay attention and learn from piers's blind-defense posts, but also try to take an objective look at your game and decide whether or not you actually feel comfortable defending as much as he does. I think his posts have improved my blind-play pretty dramatically (in fact, i KNOW this from looking at my PT numbers) but I also know I'm not ready to defend with any ol' shit-hand. Being bold, creative and imaginative is a very important part of a TAG game, but don't go too far outside your comfort zone.

-TW

[Big_Leon]