Defending Against the Weak Leads

[EscapePlan9]

[Ichoi]

If there's a 2 flush there I find that people very frequently lead out with a flush draw even when you raised preflop. They don't really want to check raise you since they're out of position and in an awkward spot if you call and they whiff the turn.

Call me weak tight, but unless I know someone to overdefend their blinds, I just muck most of the time.

[Nortonesque]

It's really opponent dependent. With a passive player, it's almost always a "is my hand good?" type of bet, meaning they hit that 9, or called with something like 55. I'll usually just call the flop and fold the turn if I don't hit, or occasionally throw in a free card raise so people don't get the idea they can just push me out by betting into me.

Against an aggressive player it becomes more of a judgement call as to how often they bluff. A lot of players will even go so far as to bet an ace high here, thinking it's probably good. I'll typically throw in a flop raise, take the free card if they give it, and call down the river. If you get donked on the turn, then call down if they bluff a lot, otherwise just let it go.

[MecosKing]

[EscapePlan9]

[MecosKing]

Well, the conditions i was assuming were
(a) A headsup pot and
(b) a ragged board where theres probably no issue of tainted outs and/or your outs making his hand, i.e. a good chance that you will win if you spike a pair.

If the board is ridiculously coordinated like a three flush or the cards are too close together like 456, 689 with two to a suit or some such nonsense or something like that, then i may fold the flop to a weak lead from a LAG since not only might i make my hand and still lose, theres too high of a potential for a good draw on a board like that, which means that a LAG might threebet my flop raise and lead into me even if he misses, and make it damn near impossible to call. Even a passive player will sometimes fire at you again on the turn if his draw is good enough (lets say he has A9 and flops 8JT), even if he misses. Basically, boards that are too drawy enable people to get too aggressive with you, and make it too hard ot figure out where you are at, so your better off folding oftentimes.

Basically, on a real scary board i will fold a decent amount. But even then, oftentimes its better to peel one...especially against passive players, because if they are on a draw and dont have a pair, they will often give up and check on the turn. If they fire again, then like i said, more power to em. I like the call because against a passive player, it makes him fear the raise on the turn, which is a very popular move on the old SH tables with an overpair or TPGK, or even second pair a PP lower than the top pair for that matter, if you are in position.

See, in shorthanded the pots endup headsup matches very often, and because of that you have to be much less prone to laydown than you are in a full game. People play draws more aggro and go on more stone cold moves, and because of this, you are obviously put into many more marginal situations, like the ones we are talking about. You are right that never folding would be a leak, and i definitely think theres a time for just giving up, but way more often than not, in a headsup pot on a ragged and relatively uncoordinated board, folding too often is an even bigger one.

Cmon Xas, back me up here! What do you think?

[Xaston]

[MecosKing]

[EscapePlan9]

The biggest reason I don't like calling the flop is because it's nearly mandatory for me to call a turn bet. If I call the flop and know I'm going to fold UI on the turn, then I should only be calling the flop bet when I have the odds to draw to overcards. When the pot is contested heads-up after my PFR, I am receiving 5.5:1 odds after the weak lead. I'm a 12:1 underdog to hit my 3-outter, so I really do not have the odds there to continue, even factoring in implied odds. Of course the occasional loose flop call is fine so people don't think they can walk over me that easily. But still, I find raising the flop can buy me a free card if I so desire.

Whether my outs are tainted or not, I really do not know against the looser players. I know it's not as likely as 3-handed and beyond. Still, A9, A4, A2, and K9 are perfectly reasonable calling hands for the loosest players. Perhaps heads-up I should consider my outs as not quite full outs, but something better than half an out each. And then I can also add the possibility my a-high or k-high is still good.

I'll try a few different ways of playing this scenario and see what works best.

[Kuso]

a couple of questions:

1) in the OP situation... what if you raise and villain 3-bets? what action from there on flop and later streets.

2) what if you are the villain in the OP, and you hit a set (or even 2pr -- unlikely with 942 unless you are MK)? how do you progress if the AJ comes back at you? That is, how do you milk it?

[Xaston]

1) Although I prolly wouldn't raise the AJ, if I did, I would call the three bet and muck the turn UI

2) I'm a big fan of turn check raises. The $10/$20 shorthanded people are real aggressive so you can practically always get in a check raise.

[Nortonesque]