How to handle the donk bet on the flop?

[stickdude]

This is a situation that seems to happen all the time on the $.50/$1 tables that never came up that much in lower limits, and it's driving me crazy because I don't know how to handle it...

* We have 3 or 4 people seeing the flop in an unraised pot, so there's 3-4 SB in the pot so far.

* I'll typically have a small/medium pocket pair or overcards.

* Someone will invariably donk a bet on the flop, no matter what the flop is.

* The board is such that if the bettor connected with the flop (spiked a pair or better), then I'm drawing pretty thin to beat them (I certainly don't have pot odds to continue due to the small pot), but if they didn't, then I most likely have the best hand at the moment.

What do I do???


Here's an example from yesterday (trust me, it didn't take long to find one...) -

***** Hand History for Game 3198657500 *****
$0.50/$1 Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, December 14, 03:59:48 EDT 2005
Table Table 65444 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: darkchildX ( $45.25 )
Seat 2: nitsud05 ( $19.10 )
Seat 8: JCommando ( $16.21 )
Seat 9: maddrrx ( $39 )
Seat 10: mike14741 ( $14 )
Seat 3: Brolyan ( $49.75 )
Seat 6: gotchernose ( $25 )
Seat 7: pickerals ( $7.75 )
Seat 5: firehydrant1 ( $11.50 )
Seat 4: oscardisfood ( $8.50 )
pickerals posts small blind [$0.25].
JCommando posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Brolyan [ ]
maddrrx folds.
mike14741 calls [$0.50].
darkchildX folds.
nitsud05 folds.
Brolyan calls [$0.50].
oscardisfood calls [$0.50].
firehydrant1 folds.
gotchernose folds.
pickerals folds.
JCommando checks.

4 people to the flop in an unraised pot.

** Dealing Flop ** [ , , ]
JCommando bets [$0.50].
mike14741 folds.
Brolyan folds.
oscardisfood calls [$0.50].

The big blind, who only checked pre-flop, comes out firing. If he happened to have an Ace or King, I'm in big trouble, but if he didn't - perhaps he only has a flush draw - then I'm in good shape.

** Dealing Turn ** [ ]
JCommando checks.
oscardisfood checks.

The tip-off that he really didn't have an Ace or King.

** Dealing River ** [ ]
JCommando bets [$1].
oscardisfood folds.

Or maybe he did... We'll never know. My gut feeling is that I mucked the best hand to his flop bet.

JCommando does not show cards.
JCommando wins $4.25
pickerals has left the table.


And this is just one example out of dozens or hundreds that I've seen at these tables...

How would you more expert players out there play this hand? For some reason (brain pattern-recognition at work most likely), it just seems that on those occasions that I do call them down, they'll have the bigger pair and I've just spent 2.5 BB to find that out.

[Tiburon]

Ok--here's the situation.

99 in MP is an easy call/borderline open-raise. Problem is that at 0.50/1, you'll get callers. Nevertheless, the chances are in fact very good that a player has an ace or king in that situation, and the chances are better if you do open-raise.

You have 99, and a flop comes out 8-A-K. Another player bets out. So what? You're not going to call a small bet to potentially win a HUGE pot?

Here's a link to an article I wrote a few weeks back on peeling one off:



Call that bet and see if a 9 (especially the falls on the turn. Yeah, it's weak, but it's also a great way to hit for a huge pot later on, and if it only costs you a small bet to see the turn, peel one off with a decent hand. If it doesn't fall, you can easily get away from the hand. If it does fall, check with the intention of check-raising. Try the play, it is generally profitable.

You also say that with his turn check that it's a tip-off that he didn't have an ace or king. Not necessarily. He may just WANT you to think that way, or may be checking with the intention of check-raising for a big bet.

[stickdude]

[stickdude]

[Ebonwoulfe]

[MecosKing]

I agree this is an easy fold. This is not a donkbet per se, because what i undferstand a donkbet to be is someone firing into a raisor, rather than someone just betting his hand from EP in an unraised pot. I would muck this in about 2 seconds, because there are not odds to chase that elusive 2 outer, and additionally, there are too many ways that you can hit your hand and still lose anyway, like a flush or a straigh getting there.

However, HAD this been a donkbet situation, i think i might goto war with the guy, because a donkbet into a PF raisor signifies weakness about 90% of the time, and if hes weak like flush draw, bottom pair, or even a not-so-great king, hes probably not going to call you down, unless he's a moron. Of cvourse, then it becomes player dependent and read dependent and all that nonsense too.

But, in this particular pot, i would have gotten rid of those nines inna heartbeat.

[woody]

I agree with the others that this is a fold. With two overcards to your pair I would say that the probabilities are high that someone has you beat and that you are drawing thin.

To pay the small bet to try to make your set, you need to determine if you have implied odds to take the turn card or fold. After you have been playing for a while, you will probably have enough experience to determine whether you have the implied odds or not continue. If you feel that you can make enough at the end to overcome the 22 to 1 odds that you are facing, then you should continue with the hand. Whether to continue or not depends on how much is in the pot, and how coordinated the board is to flushs and straights, and whether you feel that your opponents will pay you off enough thoroughout the rest of the hand to make your continuing with the hand worthwhile. This will come with experience.

There are going to be lots of times when you fold the winning hand. It is not something to worry about.

[stickdude]

Thanks for the replies. It sounds like what I really need to do is stop worrying if my opponents are being tricky or not (and trying to out-trick them) and just get back to solid ABC poker again - the kind that got me my good winrates at the lower levels.

[ihategnomes]

Personally I dont think 99 in MP is a call with a limper, if ever. I dont see how him betting the flop dictates an A or K in his hand automatically, since we didnt raise, we really dont know what to think. I think if you raise preflop the hand plays much different and if he donks then I raise the flop and go from there. Given that you limped in, I think its played fine. Preflop dictates our opening lines on the flop and behind. They all build upon each other.