Starting Hands

[Juskimo]

This is a question that comes out of the "dont be that guy" thread, but I am interested to hear what the collective you (espcially flatfishy) have to say.

Say you are playing in a game, such as the average crypto game, where the stats for the table are someting like 55%vpip/2% 3rd st raise/45% wtsd.

What are your starting hand requirements?

I have been kicking this around and, while I agree with flatfishy's starting hand reqs for other sites, I dont think that this is the correct apporach to a CS/ultra passive game.

-Jus

[flafishy]

I do tend to play more hands at the ultra-passive Crypto 1/2 and 2/4 tables, just because I know I can get in cheap most of the time, and a lot of the times, if you get a decent draw on fourth street, you'll have five people checking around and you can see a few freebies along the way if you need to.

For that reason, I'll almost always bet or raise fourth street if I plan to stay in the hand. If you have a made hand on fourth street, then obviously you'll bet/raise to build the pot. If you just have a draw on fourth street, a bet/raise on fourth street won't chase everyone out who plans to continue but it will give you command of the table and buy you a free card or two if you need them to complete your draw.

Anyway, as far as starting hands, I'll play those baby pairs, the baby flushes, the baby straights, three unpaired and unsuited high cards that I normally wouldn't play at a table where there's a little bit of aggression. I'll even play a medium one-gap straight sometimes if the board is particularly low.

At those Crypto tables, you can get in cheap and hang around for a couple of streets for cheap while you try to improve them. But I'll dump them on fourth street if I don't improve and someone bets out. If I'm last to act on fourth and I haven't improved and it's checked around to me, I'll throw a bet out there anyway to try to steal or at least buy a free card or two on fifth and sixth. If I do improve on fourth, I'll usually always take the betting lead either with a bet or a raise.

But you have to pick your spots with those kinds of hands. I wouldn't play a pair of 2s with a lousy kicker, for instance, if there's another 2 on the board. I wouldn't play a 8-high flush if more than two of my suits are showing elsewhere on the board. I wouldn't play most straights if three or four of the cards I need to complete the open ends are showing.

But generally, at those passive Crypto tables, I'll take a few more chances with those kinds of hands than I normally would. At a table showing any kind of aggression, those are the kinds of hands I almost automatically toss and love it when someone at the table likes to play them (about 90% of the people at a low-stakes stud table). When I do play them at a particularly soft table, I don't fall in love with them and have no trouble dumping them early and cheaply. The problem most people have with playing those kinds of hands is that they fall in love with them and will chase them to the bitter end.

[piersmajestyk]

Having my play called maniacal in a high ante stud game may be one of the highest poker compliments I have ever had, thanks Fishy

What would constitute a top playable hand in Stud is an ever changing thing that is determined collectably by the ante structure, your hand in it's comparision to the other cards out and also somewhat your position in relation to the bring in as well as the general play of the table either being passive to agressive or somewhere in between and what position those aggressive players are in in relation to your position on the third street bring in. All that said in a high ante game which most of these low limits games are on most of the sites I am not going to sit around and wait for rolled up aces to get in there and start ramming it up. Give me two live overcards to the board or maybe one and some kind of preliminary draw to a straight or flush and you can count me in the hand and usually for a raise. The kind of hands I will limp in with are live three flushes with lower cards hoping to peel another one on fourth. I want to gain control of the table and have those folks fear having to play a hand with me because they know it is going to cost the maximum. If I happen to be in there with the worse of it at times that is ok too because sometimes I catch up because I am always in there with live cards and most of the time they play so poorly that they let me off the hook for several bets when they do have the best hand. Playing a ramming and jamming game like this will definately send you on a big up and down ride at times but in my opinion one that is necessary if you want to be more than a nominal winner at high ante stud games.

If you want to play a more nut peddler 7 Stud game then make sure to find the right ante structure and then wait around for those big pairs and big three flushes to start entering pots with. Those games are usually the 5-10 games with a 0.50 ante and 2.00 bring in and the 10-20 games with a 1.00 ante and 3.00 bring in.

[flafishy]