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i'm over it, and i've learned a valuable lesson from the process. there's no need for me to get greedy. i think the play was probably the right one (this is why i'm still looking for more opinions) IF i am ok with a high variance style of play -- but i'm not. i don't play enough for the swings to smooth out in a time frame that i'm comfortable with.
i just read an article on another site (post coming soon), about the reality of weak-tight play. basically it says that this style is not far from optimal if you have passive players who will pay off your monsters. this describes this guy and the tables i play at in general. add in a little selective aggression, and it's close to perfect for the tables i'm on. i think this was an instance of not being selective enough in the aggression department.
anyway, thanks for the responses, and i hope to hear a couple more.
Statistics: Posted by Kuso — Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:15 am
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Lately, I've been playing the role of calling station against the hyper aggressive lags at the PLO8 tables. I tend to give them more credit for a decent hand on raggedy types of boards and will look to trap more when I nut up. When I don't nut up then I have at least cut my drawing cost and can let something go (in this case on the turn I guess, but I very well may have taken it to the river if the guy was that bad).
I try to look at it like this - Every once in a while those guys need to hit a hand, or they'll go broke and leave. Unfortunately, this time it was your number that came up when payoff time rolled around.
Statistics: Posted by JDLush — Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:45 am
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I have this problem, too, which may not be the problem you're seeing. Some people just flat out piss me off! You wanted to get this guy. Wanted it real bad. It made you run head long into a brick wall.
We depend on our skill. They depend on their luck. Sometimes they win and it's unimaginable. I try real hard to not let some bozos get to me with their lucky hands, but often I'm not successful and it costs me money. Our edge is our skill. Don't give it up easily.
CJ
Statistics: Posted by Cactus Jack — Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:06 am
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pokenum -o8 js qc ks td - 3h 4c 2c 2s -- 2d kd kc
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Kc Kd 2d
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Ks Js Qc Td 346 346 474 0 0 0 0 0.422
2s 4c 2c 3h 474 474 346 0 160 0 0 0.578
i wasn't that much of a dog against the hand as it played, and it was most likely over 50% with the range of hands i put him on.
Statistics: Posted by Kuso — Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:39 am
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Villain is a 90% VPIP player who will call down and/or jam with non-nut hands. I had already stacked him once with my nut str8 over his second str8 (full stack). He had really been showing down a lot of crap.
OMAHA HI/LO POT LIMIT ($1/$2)
Table 'Mentor V' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: Hero ($322.75 in chips)
Seat 4: SlickLogan ($87.85 in chips)
Seat 5: sorerichard ($40 in chips)
Seat 6: Swoosh94 ($34 in chips)
Seat 7: GalatiaKid ($243.65 in chips)
Seat 9: Villain ($202.85 in chips)
SlickLogan: posts small blind $1
sorerichard: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Js Qc Ks Td]
Swoosh94: folds
GalatiaKid: folds
Villain: raises $2 to $4
Hero: calls $4
SlickLogan: folds
sorerichard: calls $2
Raise can mean anything... like, he has four cards. i call looking to trap.
*** FLOP *** [2d Kd Kc]
sorerichard: checks
Villain: bets $12.35
Hero: raises $37.05 to $49.40
sorerichard: folds
Villain: raises $111.15 to $160.55
Hero: raises $111.15 to $271.70
Villain: calls $38.30 and is all-in
I raise to isolate so that a flush draw doesn't try to get cute. when villain reraises, i feel a bit pukey, but...
I put him on Kx, 2x, nut flush draw, or AA. If he's got AK, K2, or 22, I figure I've got outs. I don't give him a lot of credit for holding the goods.
*** TURN *** [2d Kd Kc]
![[6h]](https://livepokerforum.com/images/smilies/6h.gif "The Six of Hearts")
*** RIVER *** [2d Kd Kc 6h]
![[2h]](https://livepokerforum.com/images/smilies/2h.gif "The Two of Hearts")
River just rubs it in.
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Villain: shows [3h 4c 2c 2s] (HI: four of a kind, Deuces)
Hero: mucks hand
Villain collected $407.70 from pot
No low hand qualified
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $410.70 | Rake $3
Board [2d Kd Kc 6h 2h]
Seat 2: Hero (button) mucked [Js Qc Ks Td]
Seat 4: SlickLogan (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: sorerichard (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: Swoosh94 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: GalatiaKid folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Villain showed [3h 4c 2c 2s] and won ($407.70) with HI: four of a kind, Deuces
My questions are these:
1) With my read that he's REALLY loose and will play non-nut hands aggressively, did I make the right play?
2) Should I have waited for the turn before I jammed?
3) How do you play this against a solid player? Call on the flop hoping for a boat on the turn?
4) Is the result inevitable? Was I going to double him up no matter what? Could I have saved money somewhere? If so, how?
I feel REALLY bad, as that $200 was a couple of hours of solid play down the tubes. I've gotten MUCH better at limiting my losses with my losing hands and maximizing my gains with my winning hands. This hand was NOT my typical style, but I felt like the deviation from my normal style was warranted given the situation.
Any and all advice is welcome.
[Edited for clarification and layout.]
Statistics: Posted by Kuso — Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:20 am
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