2) Assuming that SB has a set and EP a strong draw (nut flush + something to go with it) I don't think you should call. In the best case (all your outs are live, both opponents have two hearts so that the combined outs against you are minimal), it would be a marginal play. But it's likely to be -EV.
3) The flop bet by EP tells me he is drawing and that he didn't fill up now. I would bet the pot to make it a mistake for him to draw to the flush. If he raises, then I'd probably fold, since I haven't got the odds to call.
4) I assume you meant
![[8c]](https://livepokerforum.com/images/smilies/8c.gif "The Eight of Clubs")
here, since you are holding the ![[8s]](https://livepokerforum.com/images/smilies/8s.gif "The Eight of Spades")
. You have the nut straight, but are still vulnerable to a flush or to a pairing of the board. Raise allin to get SB and possibly EP out.5) Lp is loose so might have called with a bare flush draw. This is really player dependent. I would probably bet half the pot and lay it down if he raises.
This was a difficult one, Monk. I look forward to your analysis.
Pieter
Statistics: Posted by Hofstra — Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:44 am
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Some interesting replies! Let me preface by saying that I think this is a situation where either calling or raising could be correct, and neither move is likely to be disastrous (so in that respect it's not too tough a decision).
Here's how I'd probably play the hand. I think that after the EP player bets out so weakly you can likely put him on a draw or something like two pair as that's a typical move someone makes with a draw. I would estimate the nut flush draw would be about the most likely holding for him here, and on a $100 PLO table if he's fairly tight-passive, he might lay it down to a raise. SB and BB probably don't have much of a hand as they've checked what could be a dangerous board. The only threat is that either player has KK and is plotting a check-raise, but in that instance you're far from running dry, especially if your draw is good. Either player with position on you could have KK, or a big draw.
HOWEVER, this is one of those boards that's unlikely to have caught anyone too big. The K is the only likely set (though of course you wouldn't rule out a low set, with 2 low cards in a raised flop it's much less likely) and you've already heard from 3 players, none of whom seem very likely to have a set of kings. Two pair hands are also unlikely because of the distance between the 7 and the K and the fact that it was raised preflop. Therefore, I would usually raise the pot here. Three out of five opponents have shown no particular strength and the other two are likely to fold a big raise unless they have a major hand. Although draws like the one you hold usually want plenty of callers to pay them off, you can suitably "promote" your flush feature by raising out anyone with a Q-high flush and (possibly) the nut flush draw. Against two pair you're slight favourite (if all draws are live) and against a set (which isn't necessarily out) you're not taking the worst of it significantly. If you win the pot here, it's a fairly big one and by raising you pretty much resign any of the remaining players to play for their stacks sooner or later, which they're likely to be unwilling to do without KK or at least the nut flush draw.
On a table of total calling stations, I think it's best to just call; you will likely get paid of nicely if you hit your straight, and your raise has probably got no real fold equity so it's not so smart when you could be a slight underdog to a caller. On a table where the lead better has a small stack (I forgot to mention stack sizes, which is very important here!) or if there's one downwind of you, you may also elect to call as they will probably go to a showdown and your hand isn't worth much unless you catch one of your draws. Even on this table, I can see why calling is a fine move. You may get a lot of money into the pot, and you DO have some nut outs, which could be paid well if you catch. Also, you give yourself the opportunity to fold if someone comes over the top of you. However, I play fairly tightly most of the time but when I consider I have a strong hand I like to play it forcefully and put opponents on big decisions. I am also a big advocate of improving drawing hands when you have a big stack by raising your better draws when there's fold equity to be had.
Anyway, that's my take. The one move that I think doesn't offer that much is making a small raise, which I think demonstrates your interest in the pot without really accomplishing much; you won't force out a higher flush draw, you may let in a player who has some of your straight outs duplicated, and you are putting a larger number of chips at risk to a re-raise than by just calling. You also announce your interest in the hand to the table, and that you have a good (but not great) holding. The only reasons for making this move (to disguise your hand and perhaps make people think you have a semi-decent made hand, and to open up chance for a big raise on the turn against the flop lead bettor) can be accomplished by raising the pot, with the added advantages of additional fold equity and the chance to improve your semi-decent flush draw by folding higher ones. Folding is obviously also incorrect in a pot this big to a raise this small.
So, in summary, I can accept there are good reasons for both calling AND raising here. I'd call on something like a party table (with shallow stacks and loose players) but definitely raise here at Stars more often than not.
OK, so here's part two of the quiz.... What would you do in each of these situations?
1) You call, SB calls, everyone else folds. The turn card is the A[h], SB now leads out for $30 and EP folds.
2) You raise the pot, SB re-raises all in and EP calls. Pot is £550 and it's another £200 or so to call.
3) You raise the pot, EP calls, turn brings a 7[s], EP checks to you.
4) You call, one LP limper calls, SB calls, BB calls. Turn brings an 8[s] and SB checks, BB moves all in for his last $90, EP calls.
5) You raise the pot, the loose LP limper calls, everyone else folds. Turn brings 2[h], you're first to act.
Look forward to hearing your responses, these questions are pretty tricky, I think I'll have to give them each some serious thought myself.
Monk
xxxxx
Statistics: Posted by Felonius_Monk — Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:45 am
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