First, they don't really hit the flop hard all that often in terms of straight draw. I think this does speak against raising them, as they're a small percentage anyway.
Second, if the pair wrap has full closure, the location of the pair doesn't matter as far as I can tell in terms of nut draws. Where it IS an advantage to have the pair ON BOTTOM (all else seems the same) is that there is one more nut straight in there with set.
For example: 8876. Here, there are two nut straights including the 8--namely 458 and 589.
8776, also two: 754 and 579.
But with 8766 there are 3 of them: 654, 569 and 69T.
So, with the pair on bottom, you have a little edge in terms of frequency of hitting nut straight with really the biggest redraw possible (since boat beats flush and has better odds of hitting anyway).
Third: Where these things do really well is against an unpaired monster wrap. Here, I ran 6778r against 3678r on a board of K54. Well, 8763r is normally about as good as it gets there as a wrap, pretty much a coinflip against KK if it's all-in on the flop. But not against 6778r, which is a 2.1:1 favorite.
Fourth, holes detract enormously from the value of these hands and it becomes a lot more important for the pair to be on bottom. Nonetheless, looking at what you can actually hit, I think you put a hand like 7664 or 7644, the latter being better, about on par with a pretty junky JJ-KK. In other words, if you play these hands to a decent-sized raise, you need to be getting very good pot odds.Statistics: Posted by Aisthesis — Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:34 am
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