I'd say 25-30% is about right for a good player in a decent game, I'm below this I should point out (don't have PTO to hand but I think it's in the 23% region).
Like I say, prefliop means shit in PLO. But it means a great deal if you then piss your stack away on the flop. Your VPIP should increase concurrently with your ability to outplay the table. Mind you, if 17% works for you, stick with it. This isn't 2+2 and we recognise there may be more than one right answer to the meaning of life
Statistics: Posted by Felonius_Monk — Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:46 pm
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I should make a couple of caveats from the previous thread he referenced - one, it was written during a time when party only had half-size buyins (i.e. only $100 on a 1/2 PLO table) and thus implied odds were greatly reduced, meaning that most marginal draw-orientated hands needed to be folded preflop. Nowadays that's not so much the case. In addition, for some reason I said that AKQJ no suits was "just about good enough" to limp or something, which might give the impression that it's a weak hand - this isn't true, it's still a decent to good hand, though not an absolute monster (and considerably weaker against good opponents). Best played in position, though, but I limp it from anywhere for sure.
I should still stress that playing tight preflop is a good idea early on in your PLO career, NOT because you have to play tight to win (players with VPIP over 50 can be winners in this game, and generally VPIP below 25 is probably not ideal, certainly below 20) but because some hands contain marginal features that might be hard to play on the flop. If you stick to the more "premium" type hands and ones which hang well together, you'll avoid some tough decisions on later streets. The flop is a very cheap street where everyone has hands of a similar strength (ie. no-one is dominated) so poor or slightly loose preflop play won't be a massive problem in itself, but it can feed leaks in your game that manifest on later streets.
Hope this helps.
Statistics: Posted by Felonius_Monk — Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:29 pm
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I agree with monk that you should have folded both hands on the flop.
On the second hand, once you saw the turn (once again, fold the flop), you have to raise him. You have the nuts and if you think he has TT, push because he will call and it will protect your hand against any draws. Don't slowplay and don't just call down without a very good reason.
47% VP$IP is way too high. You can do well in PLO playing loose if you are very good postflop but that is too loose and you are too new to this to play that many marginal hands postflop.
Here's a good thread answered by monk when I first started on starting hand selection.
forum/viewtopic.php?t=378
It is basically a game of looking for 4 cards that work well together and looking for nut hands and nut draws. You shouldn't normally count an out that isn't to the nuts when you are drawing. Read monk's articles, look at past threads and feel free to post hands in this forum as it seems they are 90% my hands nowadays.
Statistics: Posted by briachek — Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:26 pm
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On both hands you should fold on the flop. In both cases you're probably drawing to 2 outs! Overpairs are no good in PLO as a rule.
Try reading some omaha literature - a good start is Bob Ciaffone's omaha book - good beginner's intro. I also like Stewart Reubens "how good is your PLO", although that's probably a later book - the advice is generally far too loose for the fixed buyin games online, but it includes some good material in terms of thinking about hands and odds etc.
Make sure you read the couple of PLO intro articles I have on the front page - www.livepokerforum.com, good luck with it!
Monk
xxxxx
Statistics: Posted by Felonius_Monk — Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:04 pm
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Hand #8935670-1601 at Nacka (Pot Limit Omaha)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 12/Oct/05 22:49:28
cats_eye is at seat 0 with $18.90.
UBspecial is at seat 2 with $20.45.
tarheel1 is at seat 3 with $16.
BAD_CO is at seat 4 with $29.25.
specialed69 is at seat 5 with $22.25.
FutureBaller is at seat 6 with $23.70.
allknighter is at seat 7 with $9.50.
Maurodona is at seat 8 with $10.
DP1978 is at seat 9 with $27.05.
The button is at seat 0.
UBspecial posts the small blind of $.10.
tarheel1 posts the big blind of $.25.
(Maurodona did not post OT, is sitting out.)
cats_eye: -- -- -- --
UBspecial: -- -- -- --
tarheel1: Ks 8h Js Qc
BAD_CO: -- -- -- --
specialed69: -- -- -- --
FutureBaller: -- -- -- --
allknighter: -- -- -- --
DP1978: -- -- -- --
Pre-flop:
BAD_CO calls. specialed69 folds. FutureBaller
folds. allknighter calls. DP1978 folds. cats_eye
calls. UBspecial calls. tarheel1 checks.
Flop (board: 4s 4d 8d):
UBspecial checks. tarheel1 checks. BAD_CO checks.
allknighter checks. cats_eye bets $1.25. UBspecial
folds. tarheel1 calls. BAD_CO folds. allknighter
folds.
Turn (board: 4s 4d 8d 8c):
tarheel1 bets $3.75. cats_eye calls.
River (board: 4s 4d 8d 8c 2h):
tarheel1 goes all-in for $10.75. cats_eye calls.
Showdown:
tarheel1 shows Ks 8h Js Qc.
tarheel1 has Ks 8h 4s 8d 8c: three eights.
cats_eye shows 6d Qd 4c 2s.
cats_eye has 4c 2s 4s 4d 2h: full house, fours full of deuces.
Hand #8935670-1601 Summary:
$1.60 is raked from a pot of $32.75.
cats_eye wins $31.15 with full house, fours full of deuces.
ouch realized it as soon as i hit the button.
*** hand deleted because I was the luck fish and didn't know it*****.
here is the hand I had won earlier in that session
**** Hand History for Game 2873554822 *****
$25 PL Omaha - Thursday, October 13, 23:47:09 EDT 2005
Table Table 65801 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: deadcash32 ( $19.90 )
Seat 3: Horsechoker9 ( $28.90 )
Seat 4: Ingot ( $21.80 )
Seat 5: phil3333 ( $38.05 )
Seat 6: hippie0420 ( $29.10 )
Seat 7: sbirs ( $8.10 )
Seat 1: tarheel1 ( $21.85 )
Seat 10: nata_ura ( $23.75 )
Seat 9: Aardvark47 ( $22.55 )
nata_ura posts small blind [$0.10].
tarheel1 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to tarheel1 [ Jd 5d Kd Jc ]
deadcash32 calls [$0.25].
Horsechoker9 folds.
Ingot calls [$0.25].
phil3333 calls [$0.25].
hippie0420 calls [$0.25].
sbirs calls [$0.25].
nata_ura folds.
tarheel1 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Tc, 2d, 5h ]
tarheel1 checks.
deadcash32 checks.
Ingot checks.
phil3333 checks.
Aardvark47 has left the table.
hippie0420 bets [$1].
sbirs folds.
tarheel1 calls [$1].
deadcash32 folds.
Ingot calls [$1].
phil3333 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jh ]
tarheel1 checks.
Ingot checks.
hippie0420 bets [$4].
tarheel1 calls [$4].
Ingot folds.
** Dealing River ** [ Ac ]
tarheel1 checks.
hippie0420 bets [$12].
tarheel1 calls [$12].
hippie0420 shows [ Th, 4d, Ts, 8c ] three of a kind, tens.
tarheel1 shows [ Jd, 5d, Kd, Jc ] three of a kind, jacks.
tarheel1 wins $34.80 from the main pot with three of a kind, jacks.
I knew by the way he was betting he had a set of 10s the ace didn't really scare me.
as I look at PT omaha I have 8 hands wher I have lost more than $2, 3 of them over $10 with the highest being $18.xx 2 of the 3 were rivered beats.
I have 22 hands with wins more that $2.00, 8 of them more than $10 with 4 over $20.
vip 47% i know way to high WTSD% 28% I would say 20% of these were checked down to the river just a guess. W$atSD% 50.88.
I guess my point is can I have succes playing lose preflop( although I don't call many raises) and very weak tight post flop? Or as briachek put it playing as a weak/tight nut peddler post flop.
Any feedback would be appreciated and if you made it all the way through this post you deserve a medal.
Thanks
Statistics: Posted by tarheel1 — Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:24 am
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