Hand 2: At this point I push. The pot is too big and his bet is too small. Ok, so he can fold QQ or JJ or whatever and call with a lot of winners. I guess you can also call and call/push again on the river, which from EV standpoint might actually look better. I really view the push as just adjusting the bet-size, though, and all-in for him is less than pot.
Statistics: Posted by Aisthesis — Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:11 pm
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Hand 1, I would fold without a read.
Most players won't fire into you 3 streets with one pair on this kind of board.
I think I disagree with your analysis of a turn raise though.
Firstly, I think you will quite often see a river check and you can showdown for free if you want (or bet for value), so it's not really costing you $315 to get to showdown.
Sure, sometimes he will bet again, and then you'll have to decide if you're good often enough to call.
Secondly, I think a raise on the turn here should be primarily for value.
In this particular spot it's fine to raise, because it will be very hard for him to bluff you off since you have position.
And I do think he will call with weaker hands.
Hand 2, this isn't especially important. But in theory by just calling his small turn bet this is potentially a slightly profitable situation for him if he has a one-pair hand that is drawing against your hand.
Statistics: Posted by shobute — Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:28 pm
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Weaker aces will call you most of the time.
Hand 2, I would shove.
Stacks and pot won't let you do anything else with what's now a pretty strong hand on this board.
Also it sends a message that a flop raise means business because your aggression will continue on the turn.
Statistics: Posted by shobute — Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:11 pm
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2: Who cares? He's short and you have TPTK, I stand by my analysis. It's really a coinflip between raising the flop or waiting till the river to get it in. Either way I think you should get all in.
Statistics: Posted by black_knight6 — Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:33 pm
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#1) The board was
![[Ad]](https://livepokerforum.com/images/smilies/Ad.gif "The Ace of Diamonds")
[Kh][4c][6s] and the river is the ![[Jd]](https://livepokerforum.com/images/smilies/Jd.gif "The Jack of Diamonds")
. He bets $225 into the $385 pot. So does he have AJ and I got outdrawn? Did he have JJ? What about KJ or QT? Does he have nothing?So the basic question is this.....if I was ahead of AJ, KJ, JJ or QT was calling (and not raising) correct since he only had 2 -5 outs? Can I fold now? I dont think so. So shouldve I have raised to make him pay to try to outdraw me? He already put the $90 in so if I just call, Im letting him draw for free (if hes drawing and is behind).
Its going to cost me $90 (turn bet) + $225 for a total of $315 to see if I have the winner. Should I have just raised to $300 or so and then folded to a reraise (or checked behind on the river? If I raise to $300-$315, HE has to pay the extra amount when hes behind and he gets nothing extra when he hits because Im not putting in another cent on the river. It costs me the same amount to see the river, but I win more when Im ahead and lose the same when Im behind OR get outdrawn. Thoughts?
#2) I call the turn bet. The board showed
![[9d]](https://livepokerforum.com/images/smilies/9d.gif "The Nine of Diamonds")
[4h][3c][Ks] and the river is the ![[Jc]](https://livepokerforum.com/images/smilies/Jc.gif "The Jack of Clubs")
. He bets $100. He has only another $100 so I put him in. If he has me beat, then so be it, but Im not folding this hand no matter what because hes too short.If I raise the turn all in, he probably folds everything I beat and calls with a set. But since Im not folding this hand no matter what hits the river, I theorize that its correct to just call the turn in this hand but raise the turn in the other since we still have alot of money behind.
So in summary, my point is that I think its correct to raise the turn when I think Im ahead but the money is still deep and I can lose alot more money if I get outdrawn, but its correct to just call when the money is shorter and the outdraw doesnt cost me much since I will not fold regardless of what falls on the river.
Im not 100% sure Im correct here, so please tell me why Im wrong if you think so.
Statistics: Posted by iceman5 — Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:13 pm
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Reason: You're either WA/WB here, but I think WA. If WA, then you don't want to fold out hands that will fire another round on the river and/or call a bet/raise. So, you get more value out of hands you beat. If you're WB, then I think you get more info by the river whether you should raise or just call a bet; if he checks, you have to bet, but a CR from him would be awesome (you'd have to fold without the read).
2: Raise all in.
Reason: Normally I'd call if he were a full stack. But, he's short and you have to push. Smells like he's on a draw and not holding 2pr+.
Statistics: Posted by black_knight6 — Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:11 pm
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#2
That looks like a blocking bet which would be an argument for raising, but without a read (ie: it's just a bet) once again I think calling is OK for pretty much the same reasons as the previous hand.
Statistics: Posted by Stoneburg — Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:48 pm
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