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Live Poker Forum - Online Poker Forums & Hand Analysis Poker Forum 2007-01-05T04:57:20-06:00 https://livepokerforum.com/feed.php?f=5&t=21507&mode 2007-01-05T04:57:20-06:00 2007-01-05T04:57:20-06:00 https://livepokerforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21507&p=198154#p198154 <![CDATA[Getting good odds to draw OOP on the turn..]]> Statistics: Posted by schlep — Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:57 am

]]> 2007-01-04T23:41:32-06:00 2007-01-04T23:41:32-06:00 https://livepokerforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21507&p=198056#p198056 <![CDATA[Getting good odds to draw OOP on the turn..]]>
second.... i can check-call on the turn because:

1. if your opponent bets 1/2 pot on the turn you need him to pay 1/4 pot on the river. that shouldnt be hard to extract. if he bets 3/4 pot on the turn you need him to pay 1/2 pot on the river. also not terribly hard to extract.

2. i check-call the turn with top pair or overpairs sometimes. if you dont check-call ever with top pairs/overpairs, then thats a problem with your game, not with mine. so it actually doesnt announce my hand as a draw.

3. i check-raise the turn with strong overpairs, sets, some other hands (and some draws), or bluffs sometimes. so my opponents are aware that they can't just bet the turn with impunity. if you never check-raise the turn.....then of course your opponents will bet.

finally.....if you're betting 1/2 pot with draws and not 1/2 pot with anything else...then i think you have a big big problem with your flop play. if you're betting 1/2 pot with everything then i think you're missing value + giving good odds with every non-draw hand.

Statistics: Posted by ua1176 — Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:41 pm

]]> 2007-01-04T20:04:38-06:00 2007-01-04T20:04:38-06:00 https://livepokerforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21507&p=197983#p197983 <![CDATA[Getting good odds to draw OOP on the turn..]]>
Check/call on the turn announces draw (or maybe maybe a bluff c-bet on the flop).

And there is no way, NO WAY you can call anywhere near the pot on the turn. You're going to lose what you put into the pot here 4 times out of 5. No way you make all that back that 5th time if you were putting in more than 1/2 the pot. This is the whole problem i'm talking about.

If the pot on the turn is 20 dollars. You check and your opponent bets 15 and you call.
You will lose 15 four times, 15+15+15+15 = 60. The one time you hit you will win the 20 in the pot before the turn plus the 15 he put in on the turn, that's 35. You need to get an additional 25 dollars just to break even. The pot on the river will be 50 dollars and you've got to get him to call a 25 dollar bet when a scare card (your draw) hits. That's just to break even and it's not even realistic.

Statistics: Posted by Confundus — Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:04 pm

]]> 2007-01-04T19:51:32-06:00 2007-01-04T19:51:32-06:00 https://livepokerforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21507&p=197977#p197977 <![CDATA[Getting good odds to draw OOP on the turn..]]>
if i lead the flop w/ a draw, and get called, and the turn bricks....

i usually check/call a reasonable bet (less than pot)
i sometimes (30% maybe) check/fold
i rarely (10%?) check-raise all in.

i also think that a lot of the reason you face so many turn bets after checking is BECAUSE you only bet 1/2 pot on the flop.

Statistics: Posted by ua1176 — Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:51 pm

]]> 2007-01-04T19:42:30-06:00 2007-01-04T19:42:30-06:00 https://livepokerforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21507&p=197976#p197976 <![CDATA[Getting good odds to draw OOP on the turn..]]>
But if you don't hit the turn, seeing the river for good odds has really become a conundrum for me. 1/2 pot is just too much to pay unless you are really deep stacked and your opponent is married to his hand. To break even paying 1/2 pot you must get your opponent to call 2/3 the pot on the river. With only one chance to bet and the river being a scare card, that's just not realistic.

If you check, your opponent will almost always bet atleast 1/2 the pot if he has any kind of hand at all. If he doesn't have a hand worth raise/protecting, you don't have any implied odds anyway. If you make a smaller bet that can give you good odds it screams draw and will almost always be reraised. I don't know how to handle this.

Btw, this is the standard 8 out OSSD and 9 out four flush, things would be different if you had good overcards or a pair+draw.

Ideas?

Statistics: Posted by Confundus — Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:42 pm

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