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I haven't pulled the old post up but I think I said that *I* would have called - as opposed to *you should have called*. Yup, I just looked it up and that's about what I said... specifically, "...if I've never played this person before and have no information on him then I'm certainly calling and will simply take my lumps if he has AA." You too mentioned in your original post (which was what I was responding to) that, "...he could also very easily have AK or TT. "
Perhaps it was just the way we said it and I misunderstood but I didn't read it as you had a lock on this guys holdings - I thought there was some inner doubt - now that I read it again I think maybe you were just having an academic argument with yourself and that was independant of your read.
Jav makes a good point here when he says that, "I think that this is one kind of advice that doesn't always translate well to other players." There is no way I can describe the 'knowing' in print. But we live and learn... let's hope this is one of those times for me
Statistics: Posted by TheUnknownPlayer — Mon Dec 20, 2004 6:52 pm
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Turn was a ten. I bet half pot and he raised all in. I said I KNEW he had AA but couldnt fold.
Didnt you say that I shouldve called? I think that hand is pretty similar to yours. We both had good reads, but called any way. Most people in my hand and yours thought a call was correct. Im still not sure. I think reads are great, but you can only trust them so far.
Statistics: Posted by iceman5 — Mon Dec 20, 2004 5:16 pm
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But I do know that feeling where you're about to call a very big bet with a pretty good hand, but you just know that the other player is going to turn over the two perfect cards that have you beat. As long as you don't start looking for monsters where they usually won't be, I do agree that it's a good idea to trust that instinct sometimes.
Statistics: Posted by Jav — Mon Dec 20, 2004 4:21 pm
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Your first instinct includes all your poker experience and knowlegde, into one "feeling." Everything else is just second guessing yourself.
He of course states it much better in his book...
I find this advice very sound and only something a top player would realize on his own.
Statistics: Posted by kennyg — Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:40 pm
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I wasn't real clear in the way that I said it but when I said, "..a MP player... raises to $20 which is typical for this game..." I didn't mean that when a person raised - they typically raised to $20 - I meant that every hand was raised...and typically that raise was to $20.
In a game where the only question regarding a pre-flop raise is, "Who's turn is it", raising standards go way down - and so then do calling standards.
So no, I don't typically call a raise with KQo but in a game where every hand is raised pre-flop it figures to be playable.
Incidentally, I agree with you that many players would make that move with Jx - but that really isn't the point... I *knew* he had the JJ. Without getting really esoteric here, there are times that your subconscious picks up on things that never get to your conscious mind. I don't play scared money and I have no problem moving chips - $155 at the stakes I'm used to playing is not a number that gets me to second guess myself - something else was going on. I figure I picked up a tell from this guy and simply failed to process it consciously but the way my screaming at me I should have trusted my instincts.
TUP
Statistics: Posted by TheUnknownPlayer — Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:09 pm
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But I won't play KQ for a raise, even on a table where I feel I have good control. Do you make this call very often? I'm curious what the table conditions were that made this call okay, or if you just had good confidence that you could outplay most of the table post-flop so you were willing to call with that hand? (And just because you lost this hand doesn't mean you couldn't outplay your opponents most of the time...)
Statistics: Posted by Jav — Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:29 pm
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Statistics: Posted by iceman5 — Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:36 pm
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I go into the tank. He can only have one of two hands - Qx or JJ. Qx nets me half the pot - so I'm calling $155 to win $70 - or the pot is laying me about 0.45:1 hardly an enticing number but the likelihood of him having JJ is remote ... except my gut is screaming JJ. I've gone over the hand numerous times and I see nothing in his betting pattern that indicates JJ... yet that's what I put him on. Then I tried to figure out a reason to call. I'm suppose to call if I figure he's 11:5 to have the Qx... but the number wasn't that good. If he had $300 or more in front of him - it's an easy fold but I was lulled into a call by the 'only' $155.
Long story short - I did call and he showed me quads. That about sealed my night - I quit the game shortly thereafter having blown the laydown. I'm disgusted and am hitting the sack. I'll have more hands later...
TUP
Statistics: Posted by TheUnknownPlayer — Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:29 pm
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