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8-16 Live, FR - Anyone like this turn play? - Live Poker Forums

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8-16 Live, FR - Anyone like this turn play?

Postby PunkJazz » Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:17 pm

Okay, I'm trying to ramp up my aggression as I think I'm playing to weak tight lately.
Anyone like this line or should I just qoute MK now and say "You sir, are a noob" :D

Hero is BB with [Kd][2d]

Villian is CO (He seemed weak tight but hadn't seen him show down any hands)

Preflop: All fold, Villian limps in CO, Button and SB fold, Hero checks.
Heads up.

Flop: [Kh][7c][4c]
Hero leads, Villian calls

Turn: [As]
Hero checks, Villan bets, Hero raises, Villian calls

River: [9h]
Hero bets, Villian calls


On the turn I'm trying to rep 2 pair or a weak A.

Thoughts?

Given the turn play should I check/fold river or is it better to lead?

Thoughts?
Last edited by PunkJazz on Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 8-16 Live, FR - Anyone like this turn play?

Postby Pok 7's » Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:27 pm

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Postby piersmajestyk » Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:00 pm

Depending on the opponent (any type of aggression at all I take this line) I would lean more toward a CR attempt on the flop and lead the turn. That A is a very bad card for you in my opinion and I don't really like the CR much here, particularly after he calls, I would much rather just lead and probably dump my hand if he raises. In your situation on the river I don't think there are any hands you beat after he calls your CR except a busted flush draw so I would attempt to check/check call it down to give him a chance to bluff if he was on a draw or perhaps check behind with a weak ace/king.
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Postby SebQtaneus » Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:17 pm

You lead and call yourself on the flop? What kind of game was this? :lol:

Since you didn't raise PF I don't put you on AK or KK or any other strong hand with an A or K. As played, the turn CR just doesn't feel like 2 pair to me. I agree with Piers in that a CR would have been much better if done on the flop. At least then you find out if your weak King is any good while the bets are small. The Ace killed you. This is live play and you don't have much of a read on this guy by the sounds of it. In my limited experience at live limit play you are getting called down here with any A or K after no PFR or flop CR.
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Postby Schuster » Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:19 pm

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Postby PunkJazz » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:02 am

Thanks guys.

My thinking was he has seen that in this game almost everyone has been leading with any part of the flop. He didn't raise preflop so I don't figure him for an A or K and he didn't raise my flop bet so I put him on the flush draw, prolly playing some small suited junk. I figured from the CO he would have raised with any A and because I lead and then CR'd the turn I thought that would look like 2 pair or weak A trying to charge the the flush draw.

When the river didn't complete the flush I felt like I had to lead. Hmmmm... I guess this was just fancy play syndrome on my part. :(

I think I should have checked the river though.
So is the turn CR a good line against a thinking player or is this just never a good line?

Results:
He was on the flush draw but the A did hit him. He had [Ac] [3c] .
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Postby growlers » Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:20 pm

UGH. I'm a little late to the party but here is my random thoughts:

1) people limping first in in the CO in a live game usually have one of two hands: a weak A, or a medium pocket pair like 66 77. Why people do this - I don't know - it is awful - but it is pretty consistant (from bad players).

2) I raise preflop with ANY two cards headsup against a CO limper, especially a "weak-tight" one. I certainly do with a K. If he three bets you know he limped a monster, if he just calls you will win with a flop bet 90% of the time.

3) As played preflop (i.e no raise), you get way more fold equity by checkraising flop.

4) This turn is a death card - he either has you beat now, or he has a holding that he now realizes is hopelessly beat like 66 and you make no more money. I HATE the CR now. But now it gets a little tough as far as what to do. One line is to lead and fold to a raise. You can't really check/fold because he might bluff with his 66. I probably check since there is no real draws and you might get a check-behind and get to showdown cheaper. If he doesn't have you beat already he likely has a two-outer so a free card is fine.
edit: went back and looked at OP and now see the flush draw, this probably tips it to bet and fold to a raise.

5) given the turn as played, you have spewed enough bets already that you need to lead the river to get some sort of fold equity. You won't win by checking and you've somehow made a big pot out of second pair/no kicker.

UGH. Sorry, I'm feeling frisky today.
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Postby PunkJazz » Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:19 pm

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Postby growlers » Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:52 pm

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